TiVo Stream vs Apple TV for Channels DVR

Channels Android TV
#15

The issue with the Apple TV and the remote is not easily solved by just using another remote. You ultimately still need the Siri remote in arms reach. The reason being that the TV button, which is used for some important things, only works with Bluetooth. The other buttons can be handled with IR. Only Apple would be that idiotic. Why in the @%@%#$ would they make one button Bluetooth only, and one that is important. Thankfully, you can live without it in day to day operation. But worse than that, the trackpad is completely proprietary and some apps stupidly use it. Philo, for example, uses a down swipe to access info during playback, and that is where the Closed Caption menu is, record, etc. They could have quite easily coded it to work with the down arrow, but no... the developers used the down swipe. How about make it work with both? And the remote lacks very many buttons that could possibly be remapped. So the ATV4K remote situation is really a hot mess. But that is Apple. And some people like it... more power to them. For me, I buy a $180 streaming box and use a $16 Walmart IR remote.

I'm not interested in any of the fancier more expensive remotes because I'm only controlling a streaming box. I've got several that cost as much as the ATV4K, sitting in the closet. I actually configured a Roku remote to work with the Apple TV and that is not bad, but there is some quirkiness and you need to keep a Roku around to program some of it.

#16

Yea....glad i did not get the Apple....after reading about the remote and its touch pad.
I had the 2017 Nvidia Shield for a week, and that wafer stick remote had a touch panel for the volume controls, and it was terrible. would go off with the slight handeling of the remote. Very glad Nvidia released the new 2019 model a week later.

#17

If you have a Harmony remote (I have the Elite, for example) you can add the TiVo Stream 4K as a device and use some of the shortcuts now like "Guide"... Logitech has yet to add the TiVo button or Live TV & DVR buttons to their database, but hopefully that's coming... go here and up-vote/comment to make this happen: https://support.logi.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/360048772473--TiVo-Media-Player-profile-for-the-TiVo-Stream-4K-is-missing-DVR-Live-keys

1 Like
#18

I'm going to attempt to reprogram the remote based on the thread on here explaining how. My Harmony Elite has been in the box for a couple of years since I got the Caavo (which I liked a lot better), but both are retired now that we are down to basically a single streaming box and an occasional DVD. If I ever get around to ripping all of them, I'll be able to retire that too. I want something simple that I can put on all our TVs and not cost a fortune.

#19

I did go ahead and order a TS4K from Amazon that I'll have tomorrow and will test it out and see how it compares with the ATV4K and my Sony. Will report back here what I think.

#20

I tried adding the KEYCODE_DVR functionality using Button Mapper but it doesn't seem to work (I also could be entering it in the wrong place)... I wish it would work though as it's the final button I need on my Harmony. I got most other functionality working using the "Windows Computer" functionality and using Button Mapper to map most other things.

#21

Are you using your harmony remote with the atv4k? If yes do the number buttons work for direct channel input. I was looking into the harmony with the hub but thought that channels dvr had no support for those additional features in the atv4k app.

#22

In a different thread with one of the developers, he confirmed that even the Windows Computer setup in Harmony is sending Bluetooth commands (including numbers) to the ATV4K - I use the Shield, but it should work for you.

#23

Only thing i hate on Apple TV is the remote. It doesn't have keys i need to use Channels DVR.
I look forward for reviews of this $30 replacement remote if we get the same functionality of changing the channels like on Tivo Stream 4K remote.

#24

Don't get your hopes up about that remote. If Apple doesn't have the IR function to call, no remote is going to provide it. ATV4K remote design is just bad. Who makes one button Bluetooth only and the rest IR after all?

#25

Thanks I think the big problem is the app for the atv4k don't support those additional features like the avdroid version not even for keyboard commands. I think I'll be moving to the Nvidia shield where the app seems to have that support. I see here people are having good luck getting the harmony remote and flirc setup on the Nvidia. I assume the Nvidia shield buffer should be about the same as the 16gb firecube. I get 3+ hours normally on the firdcube. At my house buffer size and remote features are the biggest issues. I get so tired of hearing if I have to put up with a 30 minute buffer I want my tivo back. So I'm trying to find the best balance.

1 Like
#26

I thought the harmony supports the atv4k over bt. If it don't I'm glad I haven't ordered it yet the ones I was looking at aren't cheap. I currently use the sofabaton over bt with the atv4k. It works fine. The atv4k supports all the buttons but the app itself doesn't.

#27

It does - but I think for the number buttons you have to add another device to the Activity... it doesn't cause any issues but should work for you.

#28

But should you need a $250 remote to get the $180 ATV4K to do a few basic remote functions? And the ATV app I think doesn't support some of those function anyways. How Apple hasn't addressed this is ... the Siri remote came out around the time a lot of other bone headed Apple designs came out... like the original Watch UI... cough, cough, Jony "make everything thin" Ives, cough, cough...

What is appealing to me about the TS4K is that the remote I think is about the right size, has a good choice in buttons, and seems like a lot of them just work with Channels already, and most of the rest require a little tweaking. If the performance is on par, then I will probably be happy with it.

When you talk about buffer, what are you referring to... just how long you can stay paused on live TV? If you are bumping into the buffer with Channels DVR, can you just hit record to capture it and start watching the recording? Anyone know the difference in buffer between ATV4K and TS4K?

#29

Yes, the "buffer" is the live TV buffer to allow you to pause and timeshift live TV. Channels handles this buffer completely on the client. Its duration is limited by the free space on your device. So an H.264 encoded TVE stream may allow you to have a 60 minute buffer, while an OTA HD MPEG-2 (H.262) encoded broadcast may only give you a 10–15 minute buffer. Higher end—and generally more expensive—devices tend to have more free storage, which correlates to larger buffers.

(The idea of most things being local to the client device—channel preferences, buffering, etc.—comes from Channels history as being originally a client for live TV only; the DVR server came later. Many DVR-first platforms like MythTV or Tvheadend tend to handle those things on the server, so differences between client devices don't matter as much.

Also, because the buffer is local to the client—but recordings are handled by the server—selecting Record mid-broadcast doesn't work as one would expect. Ideally, pressing Record while watching a program would also include all of the previously stored content in the buffer, which is how most DVRs work, like TiVo, DirecTV, MythTV, etc. But Channels can't operate that way because the server doesn't know about the client's buffer; because of this Channels' recording will only start from the time when the Record button is pressed. And if you were already behind in the live broadcast, the content from your current place in the buffer to where the broadcast currently is would be lost.)

#30

The atv4k buffer is 10+ hours (overkill) ts4k 30 minutes (not enough). I have atv4k, fs4k, ts4k and firecube's and like I already said the ts4k is our goto device I am not nocking it. And yes I can just record show after show when I am behind on live TV but I can do a lot of things I don't expect my other family members to do. If a 30 minute buffer was not an issue in my house I would have left the tivo's with the lifetime guides hooked up. I understand your point about the remote I am no apple fan the atv4k is the only apple product I have ever owned and I mean no apple products at all I fobid them in my home.

#31

I go back and forth between Apple, WIndows, Android, etc. and am pretty agnostic. The Apple TV remote is just a total fail from Apple. Even if there are some people that love it, the fact that a large number hate it and otherwise like the platform is ridiculous. But enough of that. The main thing drawing me to the TS4K is cost and the remote functionality - Guide, Skip, Last Channel, etc. The numbers are nice to have, but I rarely used numbers when we had cable. Are you able to configure the NS remote in similar way to what people are doing with the TS4K? I'm not really wanting to buy other remotes so would like to keep what comes with the device if possible.

#32

I love the ts4k remote. I wish I could use it on other devices. If you liked using a tivo then you will like the ts4k remote. Even my wife loves it. I don't have a NS so I only know what I've read on here. I am looking at moving to the NS because I am so impressed with the channels dvr experience using the ts4k and its remote. I am looking that ts4k experience with more memory. We need at least a 1 hour buffer in my house. I understand flirc is an option for the firecube but I don't think the channels app on firetv supports the buttons like the ts4k. I don't see a way to turn on the channels button mapper option like you can on the ts4k.

#33

I briefly tried Fire TV years ago and returned it because it felt like a big Amazon ad with a little TV thrown in... and I'm a Prime user so use Amazon. But I don't want that in my face in my platform. You would think that remotes wouldn't even be on the issues list in 2020, but these companies do some idiotic things some times. I was all set to go with NS and then decided to stick with the Apple TV because the experience in YTTV was better. Now I'm ditching that and using Channels and back in decision mode. My wife has accepted the TV with Android TV running native, so don't need to convince her. She is all about the remote, and I still need to teach her how to use Channels, which I think she will love assuming I've got all the setup glitches worked out.

#34

I only use streaming devices for channels dvr and emby. So I don't spend much time on the home screen so the difference from one device to another don't bother me as much as most. I also have prime but I record anything I want from prime, Netflix and Disney along with years of shows from the tivo. I have thousands of recordings thats why keep emby on my devices. Emby is a memory hog. Someday channels will fully support our libraries and i can get rid of emby. Then I will have the device start directly into channels and won't need the home screen at all.