TiVo Stream vs Apple TV for Channels DVR

Channels Android TV
#53

I'm well aware of all the different remote control options and UI issues presented, but ergonomics and overall UX are most important to me. In the end, what I missed most about TiVo when I switched over to Channels DVR, was the TiVo "peanut" remote. It feels the best in my hand, is easy to use in the dark, and isn't as sensitive as the Siri touchpad remote. I missed using it when I finally retired my TiVo gear.

So I used the built-in "remote control learning" feature of the AppleTV, and now use my beloved TiVo remote to control it, and it works perfectly. It even adds buttons for commands that aren't as easy or even available on the Siri remote (such as skip back, skip forward, next chapter and previous chapter.)

Yes, I keep the Siri remote nearby, for when I have a voice request, or need the precision of the touchpad to scrub to a specific spot on a video's timeline, or need to use that "TV" button. But my primary remote these days for TV and DVR watching is the TiVo remote.

That said, I mention this nuance as it slightly bridges the gap between the overall experiences granted by TiVo Stream and AppleTV for Channels DVR. If you really, really like the TiVo remote (as I do) then you can still use it on the AppleTV, for the most part. This felt like great news to me and I'm really enjoying it. My only regret is not switching over sooner.

#54

I did the same thing with the Roku remote to control the ATV4K. I just taught the commands to it and it worked well. The issue though, in comparison with this Android TV experience, which I'm able to get on the TS4K remote and the Sony TV remote, is the availability of more commands.

Channel up and down, which also let you page up and down in the Guide. Live TV and Guide buttons that take you there no matter what app you are in. And last channel being able to flip between two programs. Numbers I never used a lot in cable days, but they are there too. There is no ability to do any of this with ATV4K.

One big flaw with the ATV4K is that you can't address an app from the remote. All the other platforms let you do that. The best you can do is a macro that brings you home and then navigates with arrows to open an app. With Android you can call and App from a button, and with Channels even go to part of the app. Once you have that, its kind of a game changer for usability. With the TV4K, I can hit Netflix and go back to what I was watching there, and then hit Live TV, and jump back to the show I was watching... or hit Tivo and it does a pretty good job of bringing you back to a recording you were watching.

If the Sony Android TV had a little more horsepower, I would just stick with that, but its at the edge. I would consider paying the extra bucks for an Nvidia Shield if there were a remote that easily did all the functions of the TS4K... and not wanting to buy a $200 Harmony for every TV.

One question on the ATV remote. I read in here that double tapping play/pause would do last channel. I have never gotten that to work on the ATV. Is that supposed to work?

#55

For me the benefits and interoperability of tvOS outweigh the lack of those cool conveniences (like app addressability and button customization) on AndroidTV. One day I might try that on the kitchen TV, but for now I'm happy with this combination of hardware and software for the way I watch TV most.

One question on the ATV remote. I read in here that double tapping play/pause would do last channel. I have never gotten that to work on the ATV. Is that supposed to work?

Yes, it works for me. So long as there is a "last channel" to switch to (meaning, during this viewing session,) I am able to double tap the play/pause button on my remote, and it toggles to the previous channel I was watching. Double tapping it again, toggles back. This works on my Siri remote as well as my TiVo remote.

#56

Can you share how you stripped all the TiVo stuff off the TS4k?

#57

Here's a detailed write-up: https://www.techhive.com/article/3567053/the-best-cheap-android-tv-streamer-for-cord-cutters.html

#58

@Fofer, Does that double click work wherever you are in Channels? If you are watching a recording and doublclick play/pause, does it bring you back to your last live channel? That would be good... still not as good as doing it while I'm in Netflix and have it bring me back to Channels live. I agree that the numbers are marginally useful... but Guide and Last Channel are really useful.

#59

The Techhive article I think is sourcing info from these, although Techive gives you a softer way to just disable. In either case, all of it is selectively reversable:

Most things...

Removing autoprogramming of the remote:

#60

By disabling the CEC stuff, I got the remote to behave with volume better and was able to power on and off, and control volume reliably without it fighting with the Sonos. It lost it once on a reboot, but it was after I had uninstalled all the Tivo stuff to do the more agressive removal. It took the code again easily. Now the only glitch with TV control is the TV is IR and TS4K is bluetooth, so have to make sure to have the remote pointed at the TV or it may turn off the TV and leave the TS4K active or visa versa. In either case, just hitting select wakes the TS4K if its not there on power up.

Just as I'm getting comfortable that though convoluted to get it all working, and doubting long term support from Tivo, its feeling pretty good and performing OK. Now I'm just watching TV and I'm now getting the video flickering that has been a common problem. I hadn't seen that at all in hours of testing it. This is very frustrating to say the least and I believe Tivo has been saying they will fix this stuff for several months.

Did Tivo test this thing at all?

I'll have to play with it more and see if the flickering is frequently occuring. After having all this cool remote integration it will be hard to go back to ATV4K without it. Also enjoying Reelgood on Android which is a good aggregator for the streaming services. I probably need to pick up a Shield and see if I can get a remote experience there like I'm seenig here.

#61

No, the double-click only works when I am watching live TV, wanting to toggle back and forth between two live channels.

I agree those extra buttons/functionality would be nice, but the lack of them doesn't pose as a dealbreaker, for me at least. The appeal of the number buttons, I'm thinking, is greater once you add ButtonMapper to the mix. You could assign each favorite app its own number! Or other desired commands.

All that being said, I don't jump around in the overall interface all that much, but I do choose content and jump around within it. And lately I've come to appreciate zen simplicity in my chosen interfaces. So this cocktail of hardware and software (not to mention interoperability with my phone, tablet and computer) means AppleTV wins this round. As an overall streaming device it's far more mature than the TiVo Stream, and the other apps available on it look and feel nicer. If all I wanted was a Channels DVR client though, and the cheapest way to get there, the TiVo Stream feels like a good choice. I've just lost faith in TiVo's ability to maintain and improve their products. As a longtime user I had enough, the past 5 years have been rough. So I'm feeling the breath of fresh air, and the change feels good.

My only regret is not switching to Channels sooner. It's a gamechanger for me and I'm loving it.

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#62

I got the double click to work using the Siri remote but it doesn't work on my IR remote. Probably the button for Play/Pause is just mapped to select or something. I may be able to fix that by reprogramming it through Apple TV.

I have no confidence that Tivo will maintain the TS4K. The software is a hot mess, and they don't appear to have any real recurring revenue stream with this device so not sure what their strategy is. I guess they are hoping to sell ads on their Tivo live streaming channels, which is what everyone else is trying to do in similar fashion to Pluto. I'm guessing they are going to quickly realize the support costs outweigh the profit they hoped to get and it will become an orphan. But by then, hopefully someone else steps up.

There are so many things they could have done to get a big part of the current space, and probably still could, but not seeing it. Channels DVR + Reelgood pretty much cover what they are trying to do, but doing it poorly.

I'm going to play with this a little more now that its all setup, but probably need to see if there is a remote that will replicate most of this on a Shield. If not, Apple may be where I end up. Unfortunately, the Siri remote doesn't seem to be able to turn my Sony TVs off... another common problem that there is no solution for. The cheap IR remote I have does, so can just keep using those. No last channel there.

#63

I use ReelGood on AppleTV as well (great app!) My Siri remote is turning my Samsung TV on and off, thanks to CEC. Same with my Sony in the other room. This was important to me.

With regards to the Sony, make sure you're on the latest firmware. I had a myriad of issues that were fixed by updating. Issues with HDR, and ARC, and CEC, all got improved over time. And I had to manually install at least one update, as the TV was reporting it had the latest version but I knew that wasn't true. Following Sony's instructions for manual installation by USB stick, allowed me to move forward. Then as I recall, a later firmware update broke WiFi, I had to connect the TV via Ethernet, in order to fix it. Now that it's working 100% I've disabled the updates and don't intend to mess with it further. The AppleTV is my "home screen" and I bypass AndroidTV entirely.

And last channel (at least with live TV) does work for me on the IR remote I am using, so hopefully you get that sorted. I have it set to work with both the play button or the pause button on my TiVo remote. Double-clicking either achieves the same effect.

Best of luck with your exploration, I'm enjoying reading your discoveries. The Shield is a great streaming box with lots of flexibility.

#64

Thanks for pointing out the manual load of firmware... that may be my problem. We have X900Fs which are I think pretty popular and not cheap, so surprised it has that issue.

LOL, my discoveries are gonna drive me crazy. My wife doesn't deal with technology change well at all and I just moved her to YoutTubeTV from cable... so I need to do this once so I'm going a bit crazy making sure I get the best experience chance here.

#65

Last night I went back in to do the update on the Sony and discovered that the auto update wasn't working because it needed me to acknowledge some update in the terms and conditions. And it wasn't nagging me about it, it just stopped doing updates. Once I cleared that, it updated, and now the Siri remote is correctly turning off the TV as its supposed to. Thanks because this was bugging me for a long time!

#66

Today the TS4K lost its ability to control the TV volume again. No idea why because I've got CEC disabled and put in the code for my TV. It works for a while and then apparently forgets the code. We canceled YouTubeTV as of today and so need to move fully to Channels DVR for watching live TV and DVR (OTA + Philo) in the house, meaning time to move my wife to something. For now given the list of issues with the TS4K (volume control, video glitches, etc.), the safest thing is to go with the ATV4Ks. She's already been using one with the OneForAll Streamer remote in our main room and switching around between apps, so no worse than that from a remote experience. ATV4K performs reliably and has V4 of Channels. I may have her try with the Siri remote now that I got it to turn the TV on and off properly and she might like it (Its not my cup of tea, but you can do last channel and scrub with it).

I am probably going to keep the TS4K to see how it progresses. The guy on Reddit called tivopm dm'd me and asked if I'd like to be a tester on their big fix, so will see if that leads anywhere soon. He may not be interested when he finds out I'm stripping all their software off and just trying to use the hardware. I hope they get their act together because the remote experience on it is sweet with Channels.

#67

Funny. You would think with the streaming TV services, channel up/down and number pads would become a thing again on streaming devices.

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#68

My wife’s first few days with Channels is going ok. She said today the commercial skip is cool. :grin: I’m trying to force myself to use the Siri remote and get past my issues.

#69

I'm currently using an ancient Harmony 650 for the main TV, as it's easier to deal with than the ATV remote. :expressionless: I've found it to be relatively decent in so far as it goes. I'd prefer a BT capable remote, however, and just haven't gotten around to replacing it or the better Harmony One that's starting to show its age upstairs.

The reversion to ATV remote here isn't the outcome I wanted to see.

#70

I'm giving Channels DVR a test drive after 15 or so years being embedded in Tivo. It's been almost a week and I've actually been fairly happy. Commercial skip has worked well on shows Tivo would never touch which is a big plus. I'm using a TS4k on 3 different displays and don't have any major complaints yet. The live TV button gets temporary hijacked by the stream app even though it's disabled, but does eventually find the last channel I watched. And had one instance of no sound until bouncing between a channel or two.

My bedroom setup has a 3 channel DD amp with a Atlantic Tech passive soundbar, and now everything is controlled from that tiny TS4k peanut remote. If it was backlit it'd be perfect.

Not an Apple person so I'd never be able to offer a comparison there. I'd entertain a Shield, but don't see the point if a $50 device does the job. Already sold my one tivo DVR and a Mini. If this continues well, I'll start selling the rest.

#71

Well the Caavo is the best alternative I've tried with the Apple TV... better experience than Harmony Elite, but they are both crazy expensive for a remote, and if you are down to just a streaming box its crazy to use something like that. And none of them solve the underlying problem that the Apple TV just doesn't let you address enough things via a remote to get the experience you can get with other streaming devices. So I'm now actually trying to teach myself to like the Siri Remote.

#72

Not sure what your TVs are, but I had a good experience with the TS4K on an older LG TV out of the box. To remote problems. And no HDR problems since it doesn't do HDR. On my Sonys, its a different story. If they every fix the problems, I'd try again because performance wise it was acceptable. And the remote experience, when working correctly, is much better. So I'm in holding to see if that happens.

The hijacking of the Tivo button I think is solved if you uninstall instead of disable. A little more involved, but still pretty simple and completely reversable. The instruction are in a link up a ways on how to do that. You basically have to install a piece of software on your computer that lets you connect to the TS4K so you can enter command line commands that you'd copy and paste from the instructions.