Channels ATSC 3.0 DRM Support

Channels DVR Server
#1

Last week the security arm of the ATSC, the A3SA, released an announcement (Announcements | Security for Next Generation Television) that stated that A3SA licensees were supplied with the "new specifications and rules for secure DVRs, home gateways, and other accessory devices, as well as a newly added alternative method to let viewers securely stream ATSC 3.0 content from such devices throughout their home network". This will allow "viewers to decode and record broadcasts, make unlimited copies without expiration dates, and use common features like pause, rewind and fast-forward". Silicondust is a Licensee of the A3SA, so they should have received the document.

Those of us who own HDHomeRun Flex 4K have been waiting for Nickk of Silicondust to comment on the release, but as of now, he hasn't posted anything relating to the A3SA announcement. Prior to the A3SA release, in one of the threads on the Silicondust's Support Forum, Nickk did discuss that there is some licensing and a approval process that the hardware and software will need to pass that proves everything is in compliance with the A3SA security requirements.

When asked if the certified and approved Flex 4K receiver will work with the Channels DVR system, Nickk said that only if it goes through the licensing and certification approval process all hardware and software needs to go through.

Has the Channels team been in communications with the Silicondust team or with the A3SA to see what needs to happen on the Channels side to get their DVR system to work with the HDHomeRun ATSC 3.0 hardware?

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#2

That announcement also said everything I quoted above is out the window when ATSC 1.0 is retired.

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#3

Considering SD and that Nick rep has been saying "they working on it" for 2yrs now... and stated in now deleted threads, nothing more they can do, as the servers that generate certificates for them been broke, for more over a year...and other passing the buck type statements... do not hold your breath. Even this new announcement of changes to the DRM thing, it is just that, words. Until actual movement and action is taken, it is to be taken with a grain of salt.

If the AS3A and the networks truly wanted to allow viewers to " decode and record broadcasts, make unlimited copies without expiration dates, and use common features like pause, rewind and fast-forward"" they would remove DRM entirely or at least have made things much more simple with no crazy process to get certified and approved.

If SiliconDust, a much large company with far more reach, has this much issues, what makes you think that the much smaller company that makes up Channels DVR, will be willing or able to go through the process. Plex, maybe.

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#4

If the specifications the A3SA released to A3SA Licensees (SD is a member) last week includes some or all of the items SD discussed with the A3SA during their meeting with the group a few weeks ago, we'll hopefully see some movement by SD. SD's Flex 4K has been certified by the ATSC committee, so now they have to incorporate the A3SA's requirements into the firmware, and their DVR software so it can be presented to the A3SA group for certification. As for the the servers that generate the certificate, it is my understanding that is a non-issue at this time. I also think that because one of the broadcasters, who is a member of the A3SA, also owns the Tab*o gateway tuner, so they see another revenue source in their future when people switch to 3.0 tuners.

Both you and I, plus the rest of the ATSC 3.0 supporters here agree that the simplest thing to do is get rid of DRM, but if I was a betting man, I'd bet that DRM isn't going to be used on the OTA broadcasts, but on some of the sub-channels. I live in the Phoenix area and there is a local independent station that currently broadcasts all Suns game on their primary 1.0 channel, but also on a 1.0 sub-channel called 'Sports'. The 3.0 sub-channel isn't up yet, so they are simulcasting it on their primary 3.0 channel. If I'm right, it will allow sports teams to sell OTA subscriptions to their fans that don't have cable or a live TV streaming subscription.

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#5

You're kidding yourself. DRM has already been implemented and is not going away barring the FCC swooping in and forbidding it. Due to services like Locast and now LocalTV+, the broadcasters have all the ammunition they need to force the implementation of DRM through. These services and all who support them have done the broadcasters a favor. Now they'll be able to limit OTA more than they could ever possibly have imagined a few years ago.

#6

DRM is active now so it can be tested. I stand by my bet that DRM will be used for 'PPV' sub-channels, and not for the main, OTA channels. Broadcasters will lose a lot of ad revenue. If that isn't the plan, I would have expected the FCC to have already stepped in and stopped DRM so both broadcasters and device manufactures didn't waste a lot of money on something that won't be allow.

Consumers won't stand for this if the broadcasters are allowed to govern the public airwaves.

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#7

The blind optimist has spoken.

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#8

The only stations that have DRM are the main station. Not a single sub-channel uses DRM.

#9

I'm old enough to remember a time when all you had was OTA broadcast, no cable, no internet. In the Hartford market, there was a channel that broadcasted newer movies without commercials, but to watch them you needed a 'decryption' box and a movie code that you had to enter for to box to 'decode' the signal, so in reality, decoding TV signals isn't something new.

As for sub-stations not using DRM, I believe broadcasters require a license for each channel they add DRM security on, so why pay for a license that you currently don't need? Most viewers only watch the main channels that broadcast 'major network programming' which allows them to test to see if they are implementing the security correctly. As TV and device manufactures roll out equipment allows the viewer to view DRM signals, they will be able to test and fix problems. How do you think manufactures of NextGen TV's and the first DRM approved receivers found out there were problems?

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#10

ON TV in my market.

Hardly similar to the entire platform of OTA stations becoming encrypted and controlled by the media cartel when in actuality the airwaves are owned by we, the people. Also, the FCC, similar to the Post Office, are subject to the whims of political powers at any particular time.

Google Louis DeJoy (Post Office) and Ajit Pai (FCC). Both tried to cripple their respective agencies at one point.

#11

Very close to giving up hope here. There is precedent for SD to string along people with vaporware, and I'm increasingly worried we've been had here, although this isn't completely their fault (or even mostly).

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#12

Lon continues to nail this subject

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#13

Only local NBC and Fox are using DRM. NBC seems to be paying a quality price is ATSC 1.0 signal is much worse than their ATSC 3.o signal was before DRM.

#14

Channels DVR was and is a great product. However with the constant loss of TV everywhere channels and constant excuses on why DRM support can’t happen because nobody would support it is ludicrous. More than 300 would subscribe and if it’s bundled with the annual I think it would be a success. I think the constant excuses and lack of movement will render this app a web streaming only service and fall to the wayside.

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#15

I do agree with you to a point, but look, what if they would’ve put all their resources behind Cablecard DRM? That’s now a dead end. I think they should let the ATSC 3.0 issue settle before sinking a lot of money into that unless that becomes a dead end too.

And given there’s no gateway network tuner right now and currently released HDhomerun tuners..who knows if they’ll ever become 3.0 DRM network tuners that other apps beside itself can access(there’s still some question about what will happen once ATSC 1.0 ceases)

The incoming FCC won’t be as customer friendly as the current one is, so I have no doubt that DRM will be the future of ATSC for now, but even with that said there’s still a lot of unknow with DRM ATSC and I would prefer they wait until a lot of questions are answered before diving headend without knowing how deep or shallow the pool is.

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#16

DRM support will never happen as long as Channels DVR is a networked device. Unless the ATSC 3.0 cartel changes their methods, the only devices that could play DRM media are ones that directly hook to your devices via HDMI and, I assume, DisplayPort, which are HDCP compliant. (DVI and USB-C/Thunderbolt are also compliant, but seldom used in my world)

This isn't a decision by the devs here, it was something thrust upon us by the greedy media owners after ATSC 3.0 was already rolled out.

Also, Channels DVR would be useless as a non-networked device.

My guess right now is we are at the mercy of the FCC and the Media Cartels, we can only hope at this point for something to change.

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#17

that's only $24k/year (300 x $80) though

#18

Correct, as in open networked device. A closed group of devices within your LAN, like the product line Zapperbox is developing, would pass muster.

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#19

Any links or more info on that?

#20