If Silicon Dust app works on DRM channels why not Channels?/

I know that over the years many folks have said that it would be costly for Channels to implement DRM within their channels app. Also, over the same timeframe Silicon dust has implemented their app which DOES support the playback of DRM channels.... However their interface is VERY poorly implemented and does not work for the 10' Living room experience. Perhaps Channels can partner with Silicon Dust to provide their much better interface. Every person I know who has a cable card tuner hates the SD interface and would pay for a better interface.

SD has history with the governing body that whitelists companies that are allowed to decide that DRM. When we started the process, the body wouldn’t even work with us to become authorized.

To date, there’s only about 5 companies that have the ability to decode it.


Their attitude is "if you buy our hardware, you have to deal with our no-grid, crappy interface". Earlier generations of their tuners had sub-par hardware and couldn't tune half the channels my 2011 Samsung TV can. I mentioned this on a twitter thread by SD several years ago and they blocked me.

Not impressed with their business acumen, especially after their HDHomeRun Premium TV fiasco a few years ago that got sued out of business. They prune their forums to the previous 15 months, so any advice or help you may have received there becomes useless very quickly if you return to search for it.

They have great ideas, they should take some lessons in treating their customers properly.

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The CableLabs certification is the major reason why almost no one supports CableCARD DRM. The process is incredibly lengthy and expensive, and there is no guarantee you will get certification. SD may say the problem they canned the new 6 tuner Prime was chip shortages, but they were struggling with that product before the major shortages hit; I personally believe the certification was taking too long in combination with the FCC removing the requirement that cable operators must support CableCARDs.

(The certification process is probably also why they still have yet to deliver DRM recording.)

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Silicon dust is CableLabs certified and their HDHomeRun app can play back DRM channels, it's just that the interface they have is really poor and I would like something else with a regular TV guide like interface.

Drm recording will be coming to their devices first that support the DVR ... Much easier to lockdown the recordings,

SD known to overpromise, and under deliver...or never deliver (thinking of the always "coming soon" new Prime 6 tuner model, that got canceled after a few years them saying there were going to release it). Far as i can tell, none of SD products support DRM ATSC 3.0 stations yet.

9 months plus, of SD claiming they are Certified NextGen, and working on DRM support for ATSC 3.0 station is "coming soon". Meanwhile there are plenty of NextGen TV's and a couple other tuner devices out there that can do DRM, but none work with Channels DVR.

What makes you think that any will work with DRM in Channels ... I highly doubt it.

I thought it was said here (in other newer threads) that once SD tuners get the updated firmware to support DRM stations, then it will work with channels, since Channels just pulls the stream from the tuner, which is the device that is decoding the drm and sending the stream to requesting client which Channels is already capturing.

Has that changed?

No one has committed to anything From Channels DVR ... As Far as I know Only Homerun app will be certified to record and watch DRM.

What does the app side have to do with anything? If the tuner is decoding the signal already, then it is being sent to client unencrypted? I thought that is the point and requirement is to have the hardware box and firmware to decode it.

This box does DRM does not require a app or other software. I sends the signal to TV as with any other streaming device.

Edit: Though, at this point, 3.0 is not really any better than 1.0, in my market anyways. Picture is upscaled poorly, and audio volume is super low.

EDIT 2: Ah. I see learn something. Set-Top boxes vs Gateway devices. STB have DRM support easy now. But not Gateway devices....which seems to be on the disliked side of the market by the powers that be that doing the certifications. SD claims the "A3SA" are the ones that taking their sweet ass time and why SD tuners not have DRM support.

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Because SD's DRM decoding for ATSC3 is based upon their client software handling it. No decryption happens on the tuner itself. In order for DRM decryption to happen on the tuner itself, it would have to ship with keys in the firmware which could not changed in the future.

(If SD's hardware was decoding the DRM, all client would be able to receive the streams at the same time, and DVR support would arrive at the same time. If you read their forums, you would know that DRM viewing is coming to platforms with Widevine support first, others (maybe) later. … And recording support will arrive ... (maybe when DRM CableCARD recording is available).)

So, if the decoding is on the app software side, then why are they saying that DRM support will come with update in device firmware? :face_with_diagonal_mouth: And since they releases firmware updates, can then not update the Keys that way?

That STB has internet connection, so i gather that that company updates its keys.

What type of encryption is ATSC 3.0 using? I am searching online, having a hard time finding info.

If it is Widevine or some others, that would not be that hard to work with, on a unofficial level. Many softwares out there exist to rip content from Netflix and other streaming services that decode DRM.

Would be a un-supported "hack", but sure someone could come up with something that work with Custom Channels or something, would act as a virtual tuner and decode the DRM.

Once 3.0 takes over, and 1.0 is gone, DRM all around, sure some one will find away....

Edit: Seems a app called Freecast will support DRM streaming from HDHR. They are partnered with SD.

No clue. But DRM support for ATSC3 is solely based upon their client software handling it.

No. In order to qualify for ATSC3/A3SA approval, keys stored in hardware must be shipped with the device, and be immutable.

That STB also exports its feed over HDCP-enabled HDMI, not over a network connection. Those are two wildly different situations.

Before spreading more supposition and misinformation, maybe you should read the thread at SD's forum where this has been discussed beyond the horse's spirit being allowed to escape its flogged corpse ...


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I don't like the SD forms, been years since i had to deal with them. Not often had good communication with them and I find their form site difficult to read and navigate. Their mods also are very heavy to filter and remove posts of any negative to them connotations and cite read form rules, that just have 5 things listed that not anything clear as to what rule they remove post over. (don't hint at or mention anything about their past history or delays, especially the canceled Prime tuner, they will remove it)

But got some insightful info,

They mention blocking "Remote Viewing". Channels and others, offer remote viewing... but my version of remote, is using self hosted VPN which gives me local IP address and as far as the Media server knows, i am on my local network and thus acts as such. Not sure if this, trick, would work to stream 3.0 DRM stations though. The DRM probably would have a way to detect that, maybe detect the higher latency or something more fancy.
Edit: lol. nickk is on the ball today.

But, where i often VPN from, i get ping time of about 5ms, so maybe will work in that specific factor. Other things will probably prevent it. So stupid. Why they(they networks activating DRM) care where i watch the content? Should not matter, they still get the views and ratings. Just something more they can monopolize and charge people for who want to legit and legally watch content. This is the way.

This is because the requirements of DRM viewing has a maximum number of hops and/or TTL roundtrip; nearly every form of remote viewing is outside of these requirements.

Because their purpose is to make sure you are only within their DMA, and watching live, without the ability to timeshift, so they can make money from your captive eyeballs with ad sells.

If these are questions you are asking without actually knowing the answers, then you have not spent any time paying attention to the state of the American media ecosystem for any duration in the past 2 decades at a minimum.

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That makes sense with paid online streaming services, but not FREE over the air antenna tv.
There supposed to be laws that protect consumers right to free tv, but i guess that has changed or never was a thing.
Next, they will DRM and paywall in some fashion, AM/FM radio, and HAM/CB/GMRS etc radio. :laughing:

And no, i have not spent any attention to things related to DRM and OTA until this last month when they took down the main tower for some stations for a while and re-launched as 3.0 with DRM. Reducing power and bitrate to 1.0 stations.

I always knew that for TVE, that things were always in flux, and slowly going the way of DRM, but never assumed antenna tv going that way, and faster it seems.

OTA has just always been there, and just worked with a coat hanger stuck in back of a tv... since forever, so says the people around me...

I have always had cable tv(Comcast) my entire life (so has my family members), and it only since late 2019, that i had to dump cable due to cost and move to Channels, streaming content, and try OTA for locals. That took 5 min to hook up antenna, run cable, and connect HDHR, done.
Have not touched it since, aside from some interference troubleshooting at one point.
This ATSC3.0 and DRM nonsense the first big change in that department.

You really must be young; the shift to ATSC and digital broadcasting was a huge paradigm shift for your (great-(grand))parents' generation.

Put it this way: the major media companies want your money, and they'll do whatever they can to get it. That is why every major network has their own streaming platform (ABC=Disney+/Hulu, CBS=Paramount+, NBC=Peacock; Fox exists in a weird in-between with their parent News Corp and Disney), and most major networks (and others) are resurrecting their old syndicated content—and removing it from streaming platforms—to their own FAST brands (CBS/Paramount=Pluto; Fox=Tubi; etc.).

Everyone clamoring for Channels to add support for all of the crappy FAST services is only furthering the enshitification of television.

35yrs young.

With folks who had to watch their Soaps and shows on cable tv, and Grandparents who only watch Fox News channel, that only was on cable tv... rarely was exposed to antenna TV. The whole complex we lived in was wired with coax and basic cable was included in the rent (local only channels and cost was $3 a month, $15 to upgrade to the normal cable chs 1-99) as there was no roof antenna or antennas or sat dishes allowed. The airport near by made inside antennas not work well.

My place now, still an apartment, but lucky enough to have a East facing window and is less than 10 miles from the main tower. I never had tried an antenna until Comcast bill was about $250 a month and going up every year. Turns out OTA works great.... until this ATSC3.0 NextGen.

Which, the last couple years, all i read was praise, 4K!, higher quality video and audio, more channels, modern TV!

But, once it finally gets to my market, is DRM for the stations i care about, and the 2 that are not DRM, audio is way to low, and uses AC4, a format nobody supports aside from Channels, and SD.
It so NextGen, it is Next NextGen. Right there with the PS7. :crazy_face: :laughing:

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