Live TV signal degradation on Channels app but not HDHomeRun app

Channels DVR Server
#1

I am having a periodic issue with my live antenna streams when watching through the Channels app, but not the HDHomeRunapp.

My setup:
Attic antenna feeding to 2 channel HDHomeRun
Channels DVR server is running on an always on, rarely used, iMac

When watching live streams I am observing periodic signal degradation issues where the Channels app pops the message indicating poor signal quality. The picture will pixelate and freeze. When I switch to the HDHomeRun app (this is on AppleTV), I have no issues with the same channel. Switch back to Channels and the issue recurs.

If it matters, this live broadcast is not being recorded. We are simply trying to watch the live CBS broadcast.

I am unsure how to troubleshoot this issue. It is odd to me that the HDHomeRun app on AppleTV has no problems yet Channels does.

Thanks in advance for any troubleshooting advice or recommendations.

#2

Are the HDHR app and the Channels app running on the same AppleTV?
What is tuner sharing set to on the Channels app?

#3

Yes, both apps are running on the same AppleTV.

I do not know what tuner sharing is set to as I can't find the setting(!). I see the mention of Tuner Sharing in the documentation, but I cannot find the related setting, nor does the documentation explicitly describe the path to that setting. I imagine I'm overlooking it.

#4

Settings > Playback > Advanced
https://getchannels.com/docs/apps/usage/settings/
https://getchannels.com/docs/apps/usage/streaming/#tuner-sharing

#5

Thanks for clarifying. Tuner Sharing on the AppleTV we are discussing is set to OFF.

#6

That means when using the Channels client on your AppleTV to watch live from the HDHR tuner, it connects directly to the HDHR tuner, bypassing the Channels DVR Server.

Unless you set streaming quality to something other than Original, or set streaming quality delivery to stream. Then it gets the stream from the Channels DVR Server, which gets it from the HDHR tuner.

So possibly different network path than the HDHR app, which only streams directly from the HDHR tuner.

#7

This is helpful. As a new Channels user (and new to HDHomeRun) I continue to learn.

My settings:
Home Streaming = Original
Original Quality Delivery = Direct

Given this and the information you’ve shared, I remain confused by my viewing experience. If I understand everything here, my settings would indicate Channels is taking the live feed direct from HDHR tuner. If so, why would I have the signal issues in Channels but not in HDHR app?

I can manage the occasional blips now that I know my workaround (switch to HDHR). Just curious why the difference.

#8

Does the notification in Channels say signal error or network error

There should be no difference between the apps when tuning into the same channel. You can check the HDHR status page to verify.

1 Like
#9

Signal

The next time I observe the problem I will see if I can gather more objective data.

Thank you both for the feedback and guidance.

1 Like
#10

If it's not sharing tuners, perhaps HDHomeRun app is using a different tuner than Channels, and one of the tuners is less capable on this particular channel?

2 Likes
#11

That is likely it!

Direct access to HDHR may still be using tuners in reverse order, which would explain the difference. Signal levels can vary across the tuners.

Recommend turning on Tuner Sharing

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#12

I turned on Tuner Sharing. Will report back if continued problems.

#13

I would be surprised if tuner sharing fixes your problem. I don't think it is possible for the HDHR application to share tuners with the Channels DVR app. And besides it will not fix the tuner with the poor reception. You probably need to check your antenna signal reception. It is probably marginal at least on the channel that is having problems. I think Apple TV has methods to check antenna signal reception, but I don't know what they are. So if you still have problems, one of the Apple TV people can probably help.

#14

To get better stats on the signal quality, since you turned on tuner sharing in the Channels app, record what you're watching. Since tuner sharing is ON, it will only use one HDHR tuner.

The stats shown in the log after the recording is finished will tell you the range of stats from your HDHR tuner (which Channels DVR will poll every 2 seconds during the recording).

2025/03/30 20:01:00.540476 [SNR] Signal statistics for "TV/Tracker/Tracker S02E15 The Grey Goose 2025-03-30-1900.mpg": ss=97%-98% snq=100% seq=100% bps=6740059,4196160-6945472 pps=577,359-595

ss=Signal Strength
snq=Signal Quality
seq=Symbol Quality
bps=bits/second
pps=packets/second

Logged numbers are Average,Minimum-Maximum

SS 60% (-24dBmV) minimum
Signal Strength 100% = 0dBmV = -48.75dBm and a change of 5% is a 3dBmV difference, so every 1% change is equivilent to 0.6dBmV. A signal strength of 80% (-12dBmV) or higher is recommended for OTA operation, 60% (-24dBmV) minimum.

SNQ 50% (16dB SNR) minimum
Signal Quality is scaled for each modulation type such that 50% is the minimum signal-to-noise requirement. For ATSC1, 100% SNQ is 30dB+ SNR, 50% is 16dB SNR.

SEQ 100%
Symbol Quality is an indication of how many uncorrectable TS frames (packets coming out of the demodulator with the TEI-Transport Error Indicated bit set in the packet header) have been lost in the last second (logarithmic scale). The Symbol Quality needs to be 100%.

Aiming an OTA antenna using the numbers
Use the Signal Strength for a rough idea of direction, but align the antenna for the highest Signal Quality, ignoring Signal Strength. When aimed correctly, Symbol Quality will show 100%, indicating no errors in the output. Splitters and amplifiers can introduce noise which will lower the Signal Quality, even if the Signal Strength increases.

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#15

This is great info. I am new to the world of antennas, signal strength, etc. I'm being stretched from my digital comfort zone of 1's and 0's. :grin:

I would love to learn more. I still don't fully understand the notion of different tuners and how things change in my environment (one antenna, connected to one HDHR, connected with one Channels instance). I don't understand the technical implications of "tuner sharing" on vs off. I trust some day I will!

In the mean time, I'll begin recording the channel in question and see what I can learn from that. Thanks for the detail

1 Like
#16

It should also be noted that HDHR tuners are incredibly susceptible to overly strong signals. It will report 100% signal, but it may be higher, which will affect the quality. When dealing with SD HDHR devices, a 100% signal strength is almost always a bad thing; you should attenuate your signal closer to 95% to ensure you are not overloading their tuners.

#17

My problem recurred last night. The exact same symptoms. Signal degradation while watching CBS on Channels app. Warning: "Tuner reception problems. Reception problems are causing issues with the signal."

Switched to HDHR app and experienced zero issues. Perfectly clear broadcast for the remainder of the evening.

The following are the signal stats following the recording:

2025/04/01 23:37:00.121625 [TNR] Closed connection to 10969163/1 for ch5.11 WTVF-HD
2025/04/01 23:37:00.223507 [SNR] Signal statistics for "TV/The Late Show With Stephen Colbert/The Late Show With Stephen Colbert S10E97 Michelle Williams Max Thi 2025-04-01-2235.mpg": ss=94%,93%-95% snq=81%,0%-84% seq=81%,0%-100% bps=13064651,7572640-16820736 pps=1118,648-1543 sigerr=29%
2025/04/01 23:37:00.337187 [SNR] Buffer statistics for "TV/The Late Show With Stephen Colbert/The Late Show With Stephen Colbert S10E97 Michelle Williams Max Thi 2025-04-01-2235.mpg": buf=0% drop=0%

Based on @chDVRuser's comments, the SEQ could be problematic at a value of 81%.

Sorry to be obtuse.
Why is HDHR handling this without any issue yet Channels is not?
Given the values of SS (94%) and SNQ(81%) is antenna direction a factor?

FWIW, here is my RabbitEars report. All of my channels of interest are generally in the same direction. The channel in question is WTVF. I do not understand why there are 2 entries on the report for this same Callsign. (5-1 (36) and 5-1 (5)).

#18

This is quite bad

#19

Second tuner was used. Prob works fine on the first, which HDHR app was using

1 Like
#20

Thanks for this info, though it remains unclear what my options might be for resolution.

“This is quite bad”… Is there something within my control to improve this?

“Second tuner was used. Prob works fine on the first”… Per my prior comments I do not understand the tuner dynamics of this setup. Why does one have no issue but the other does? Given your assumption, is there a way to force Channels to use the tuner that supposedly works better?