Nick JR. De-interlacing issue

[speedingcheetah]

@mjitkop

The only thing Channels does with the streams is put them in an MPG container when storing the recordings. It's a case of "garbage in, garbage out."

And THIS has caused issues before, in how Channels encapsulates the data stream.

For a couple years, i, and many others, has issues with Windows Explorer (the file manager in the Windows OS) freezing/crashing, whenever one tried to view the recorded .mpg files from many TVE channels. This only happened in Windows, not MacOS or Linux. Despite the many reports and complaints, they did look into it, found the issue, but then instead of applying a workaround or temp fix so that users could access the files, blamed Microsoft and expected them to fix the issue in their OS thumbnail generation for slightly messed up files with invalid or bad headers, the actual video data was fine. Who, took nearly 2yrs to fix. (there are several old threads on this issue)

If channels had not used the .mpg container, but instead .mp4, .mkv, etc, the issue would not happen.
My "workaround" was to have a script run on a Linux system i had always on, that would simply connect to the network share location of the DVR server folder, and rename the .mpg to .mp4, so that i could then access the folder with out locking up my computer. (.mpg is antiquated container, hardly used these days, where as .ts and .mkv are the normal now.)

Point is, possibility still exists that is it a Channels problem and not a source problem. Or , a mix of both.
Hopefully, providing some example files, as i have done, and the other screen shots of the issue, will help in proving to the network support, that there is an issue. However, they seem keen to just blame the software the user is using (Channels).

[slampman]

Not sure if this helps but I just enabled the nick Jr channel and viewed it on my android phone and ATV and it looks perfect for me. I'm using TVE via Cox and am located in VA (in case they are having a CDN issue or something)

[adamandaj]

Thanks. Paw patrol is actually where I first noticed the problem. Unfortunately I can't submit this one because I can't even point them to a website that is being used for Nick Jr. I am trying to find examples from other paramount networks where you can get to the stream from their website.

@speedingcheetah can you record the stream from chrome at the same time as from Channels to figure out if this is actually a channels problem? I doubt it but we should do the experiment to see.

[speedingcheetah]

I do have screen record software, i just need the links to give a try on streaming that have issue.
Or one can use VLC to play and record the webs stream most likely.

[adamandaj]

We could try with another Paramount network also having problems. Just want to rule out it's not Channels. And provide them an example stream grab directly from the browser. They claim to have looked, that nothing is wrong, and that they can't duplicate the issue.

Interestingly it's not happening on Peppa Big, except at the commercials!

[speedingcheetah]

Like I said, give me a list of links to those networks and I will see if they have issues when I play them. And see if I can capture the issue. I have down several networks online but don’t have issues though I do not know what is Paramont or not.

[chDVRuser]

@speedingcheetah

I do not know what is Paramont or not.

6018 BET
6019 BETP
6010 CC
6011 CCP
6016 CMT
6017 CMTP
6024 LOGO
6025 LOGOP
6012 MTV
6013 MTVP
6028 NICKJR
6029 NICKJRP
6022 PARAMOUNT
6023 PARAMOUNTP
6020 TVLAND
6021 TVLANDP
6014 VH1
6015 VH1P

[mjitkop]

The other day, I watched CMT live from their website (not through Channels) and saw interlacing issues. The funny thing is that it looked like there were no issues (or so little that it was not noticeable) during commercial breaks. Once the program resumed, it was easily noticeable.

It should be possible, if you're fast enough, to do a screen capture at the right time. I didn't try but I'll give it a try at some point and then write to the network.

[speedingcheetah]

Think browser playback is doing it own de-interlacing or processing. The video looks supper smooth, and locking any details most of the time.

MTV web stream, no issues at all. In Channels, it is extremally noticeable.

CC web stream, slight issue, most ghosting than interlacing issues, during program only. In Channels, very noticeable, mostly when the program is playing, only a few commercials/adds have issues.

BET, NO issues on web stream or in Channels.

Paramount, NO issues on web stream or in Channels.

TVLAND, for both, no issues during program initially, brief issues during adds, but the web looked like it was heavily over interlacing, instead of fine scan lines, was larger thick horizontal blocks. Then later, after add break, the program, Mike & Molly, now has the bad interlacing issue in Channels. Does NOT on web stream.

VH1 web stream, no issues. In Channels, extremely noticeable.

NickJR, do not know where to stream it on line, but in Channels, it always has the issue even during adds. (Paw Patrol pretty much is the only thing they air it seems, 99% of the time i look at that channel, that is what is airing, lol)

Most channels, there is rarely issues with the commercials/adds. They love to repeat the Top Gun Maverick add, that is nice and crisp HD and no issues. Other adds, are lover rez and soft. I gather they are dynamically changing video rez and/or bitrate with add breaks.

Some stations, its only the adds or certain adds that randomly have issues. Just now on TV land and Shine Alrright on Ansterdam add has the bad interlacing issues, but the next add, doe snot.

May be a issue with dynamic source content the station is using perhaps. The local player on users device can't correct and enable de-interlacing? Or the station web encoder is not adjusting and is sending the video data through progressive for interlaced source files? I have no idea how they do things. These are just my observations.

Loaded these online network streams both in Chrome and FF, with same results.

I guess the network rep you are apparently communicating with, may have tuned to station stream only for a few short moments, at a time it was not having the issue, like during certain adds. The video file I provided proves there is an issue with NickJR, however, I can not also provide web stream capture, with out the url to view in browser as i have with the other networks.

EDIT: When i play Nick JR via the Channels DVR admin Web GUI, in the smaller window player mode, the issue is barely noticeable, very hard to see it. Full screen, it extremely noticeable. Probably due to the video window size being much smaller i guess. However, maybe something in how the video is stretched when being upscaled/up-sized, whatever is done when video is full screened that could be part of the issues. The network rep may also have not viewed the web stream full screen perhaps.

[speedingcheetah]

Of all those Paramont staions, the only one i care most about would be CC. As that is the station that airs new South Park episodes (hasn't been any in quite some time), and the occasionally comedian recorded shows, like Jeff Dunham, Gabriel Iglesias etc. Though i can find those shows online elsewhere to download or stream.

Nick JR, i tune into moslty when have kids over, relative, or neighbors etc and need something to occupy their time...or, if am just really bored and feel like some kids shows to cheer me up or something. But it is the one that seem to be 100% doing it consistanlty.

[mjitkop]

Very nice analysis, thank you for sharing the details.

It will be very interesting to get to the bottom of it.

@speedingcheetah

Gabriel Iglesias

Love Fluffy!

[Rice]

I know it’s not exactly what you are looking for to stream nick jr but you could test by taking the channels player out out the equation. Fire up VLC and use:

http://xxx.xxx.x.xx:8089/devices/ANY/channels/6028/stream.mpg?format=ts

[speedingcheetah]

Though i mentioned that before, but already done that. And it does it to. Also, that is the same as watching it in channels. Need the url Channels is streaming it from.
I have .m3u exported and using it as a tuner for Emby as well. In Emby, it still shows the interlacing issues, but not as noticeable, as it seems to be also doing some client side deinterlacing as the picture is much softer, but can still see the lines.

Not sure if this has any bearing on things, but MediaInfo shows that the video stream for nickjr is Variable bit rate and also variable frame rate. VLC shows 48000 for frame rate.

[chDVRuser]

Depends on VLC settings for handling poorly de-interlaced material.
I recorded a one hour Paw Patrol and it's really bad.
Appears their encoder settings are off (maybe set to not exceed some bitrate).
Any fast motion areas are not being deinterlaced properly, I can see it in my VideoRedo editor.

[speedingcheetah]

I rarely use VLC, so I am not versed in its settings. I personally hate VLC. I use MPV. And it shows the same issue.

[chDVRuser]

@speedingcheetah

VLC shows 48000 for frame rate.

I think it's caused by the way Channels DVR is rewriting timestamps.
This will fix that issue.
ffmpeg -i "recordedfilename.mpg" -c copy "recordedfilename.ts"

@chDVRuser

You could just remux the files with
ffmpeg -i "filename.mpg" -c copy "filename.ts"
This should make the Video stream 0 and add a PCR to that stream.

[speedingcheetah]

I tried that, but that doesn’t fix the deinterlacing issues. Even re-and coding the file with various different Deinterlacing settings in handbrake does not fix the video.

[chDVRuser]

Yah, the motion blur/interlaced look is due to the encoder settings they use that limits the bitrate to 3500 Kbps. And 29.97 FPS isn't the best way to display fast motion.

Strange thing with my recording is Channels DVR says 1 continuity error in the recorded stream and the tools I use say 1,615 continuity errors in the recording.

[CodeMonkey]

Watching this thread closely, cuz NickJr didn't used to have this issue.

[adamandaj]

NickJR is a prime culprit. Paw patrol is how I noticed this to begin with. No problem with Peppa Pig but problems with some ads for peppa pig including in network ads for other peppa pig episodes.

I've noticed this as well with MTV.

I sent their tech support a short segment from channels from MTV, reencoded. They said they could not duplicate this issue. I haven't had time to work on this but wonder if the problem consistently presents on the websites at full screen. The channel I have the program with the most is NickJR and as mentioned several times I can't check on their website.