[RELEASE] Playlist Manager for Channels [Streaming Library Manager Extension]

[Matthew_Crommert]

i'm pulling tve from another channels server so that isn't the issue

Didn't want to hardcode it for that channel so i can figure out whats going on

[Matthew_Crommert]

Well it started working but channels keep reverting back to unassigned - whole playlists

[babsonnexus]

If you run the report Linear: Stations - Parents and Children you can see the assignment order as PLM would do it and if there are any issues with each source:

As you can see, I have practically the exact same situation as you and do not have that issue; the TVE one plays as expected.

Just to reiterate everything @Jean0987654321 said:

1. Make sure TVE has a higher source priority...

   

   ... and/or set TVE as your Preferred Playlist at the parent.

   

2. Confirm HDHR is disabled in Channels:

   

   

[Matthew_Crommert]

On the disabling hdhr - i set it up and use the link to send to slm right? and disabled allows the m3u to keep working?

Does the same thing happen with tve?

[babsonnexus]

Please review things discussed in detail above, for instance:

[RELEASE] Playlist Manager for Channels [Streaming Library Manager Extension]

At last, I reached my happy end-state today, so I thought I'd share what I set up! First off are my sources: [image] Of note, I am now making a direct connection to my HDHR and I set up a standalone Channels Docker Container to just be a source for TVE. With these two things, my main Channel server will no longer be pulling double-duty both serving and playing/recording content. Other than that, I have a good collection of FAST providers with Plex, Pluto, Samsung TV+, Tubi, and Distro, plus …

Also the Wiki, particularly the Troubleshooting & FAQ.

[Matthew_Crommert]

This is excellent - thank you for showing your own setup

I will incorporate a lot of this

[Matthew_Crommert]

I did go look through all the documentation i could find and there was a question - i have mine numbered starting at 1000 - most of my channels are in alphabetic order - is there anyway to have it renumber to do that for all? i assume the fact they are in order is a side effect only of the m3u's feeding are that way

Also if a stream or m3u fails - it does take a rescan for plm to notice right?

[babsonnexus]

@Matthew_Crommert

renumber

Above:

[RELEASE] Playlist Manager for Channels [Streaming Library Manager Extension]

PLM is whatever you need it to be! Anyway, you can either just change the starting station number, which will renumber every station (but keep their relative position to each other at time of creation); or just put in whatever number you want (including with decimal places): [image] I do that for some, but not all, so a nice mix depending upon needs and desires.

[RELEASE] Playlist Manager for Channels [Streaming Library Manager Extension]

Not likely. It's an internal numbering schema that justs +1 to the max number found. Looking for "available" numbers and potentially running into conflicts does not sounds like a can of processing worms I want to open. That's why the manual channel number override exists!

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@Matthew_Crommert

if a stream or m3u fails - it does take a rescan for plm to notice right?

Yes...

[Matthew_Crommert]

Thanks man - only other thing i noticed - i had gone through all my pluto channels and was doing tubi and i would assign like 20-30 leave and come back and many of them would just be back in unassigned - not sure if i'm missing something simple - it happened a half dozen times

Eventually i just sent them all to parent channels and i'll sort them out later

[Jean0987654321]

Hmm...reminds me of the bug I had one time. I wonder if storing the settings through an sqlite file (or a postgres database) can help remedy that @babsonnexus

[babsonnexus]

Funny enough, I prototype'd that in the early days, but decided to lean towards transparency and simplicity, and thus stripped out all the SQL stuff. Outside a major rebuild, I probably won't reverse course at this juncture.

[binkis]

I was made aware of this because of a problem with my CBSNEWS TVE feed being MPEG-TS, and Channels erroring on it.
I've tried to resolve that situation by following the guidance, and no matter where I set the MPEG-TS override in SLM, it still fails when trying to watch it through Channels DVR with the same reason. I'm not sure if this is an SLM issue, a Channels issue, or a setup issue.
I eventually worked around this by setting the CBSNEWS from my TVE provider as the parent, but then adding a stream source from Watch CBS News 24/7, our free live news stream as given in an example and overwriting the channel number to match the original TVE value.

I'd love to get this resolved the proper way, but I do have a workaround in place.

In the process I noted that MLB TV was an available on-demand source, but I can't figure out how to add any items from that source? I've searched for team names, tried to pull information from a date range, but nothing seems to show up for me. Any guidance on how to get a non-traditional source like that configured?

Thanks!

[babsonnexus]

@binkis

I'm not sure if this is an SLM issue, a Channels issue, or a setup issue.

Not enough information provided to know, but it sounds like you might be trying to stick MPEG-TS peg into a HLS hole. For starters, check your Stream Format in your source in Channels to make sure you have is set for MPEG-TS for the m3u that is providing that station. Also, I have no idea what steps you actually took. Like, you said you set the station to MPEG-TS, but did you refresh your m3u's after doing so, and then update those in Channels after that? There are just too many questions to even begin to hazard what you may or may not have done.

@binkis

I noted that MLB TV was an available on-demand source, but I can't figure out how to add any items from that source?

Review Troubleshooting & FAQ starting here. You can also test on JustWatch yourself to see what they have in new releases, since they are the source of info:

In this case, even though they offer the source, they don't have any programs to offer, so kind of useless:

[binkis]

@babsonnexus

Not enough information provided to know, but it sounds like you might be trying to stick MPEG-TS peg into a HLS hole. For starters, check your Stream Format in your source in Channels to make sure you have is set for MPEG-TS for the m3u that is providing that station.

Some more detail on the CBSNEWS PVE issue. I use Philo for a TVE provider in CDVR. There doesn't appear to be an option in the PVE source provider options in CDVR to set it to MPEG-TS or HLS.

I've had it configured as the TVE provider for quite some time now, and this channel previously worked without issue. However, when I went to tune to it yesterday, I received the error: "TVE Error: Detected MPEG-TS instead of HLS playlist" on my TV screen.

I found this thread: Detected MPEG-TS instead of HLS playlist and saw mention of this tool.

So, I:

1. Spun up a docker container and tried to configure it to get around the issue.
2. I pulled in the Philo TVE provider m3u into SLM as a playlist with Stream Format "HLS". In the Assigned Stations setting, I set the "Stream Format Override" to "MPEG-TS". I saved that, updated the M3Us and added them to CDVR. I received the same error.
3. I then went ahead and pulled the m3u as a separate playlist with Stream Format "MPEG-TS". I then removed the Parent Station from the original m3u, and added the new playlists entry for this station as the Parent Station, and left "Stream Format Override" as "None". I again regenerated the m3u, removed the existing entries from CDVR manually, added them again through SLM, and then tuned to the new station number with the same error result.
4. I then went back into SLM and set the Stream Format Override for the Assigned Station to "MPEG-TS", updated the m3us in SLM and refreshed them in CDVR, and received the same error.

At that point in time, I noted the option to add this as a streaming station, and set up the Streaming Station for the cbsnews.com link.

1. I configured the streaming station as suggested in the guide.
2. I removed the SLM providers from CDVR manually.
3. I set the TVE entry to use the Streaming Station as its parent (to be able to pull in the EPG information).
4. I overrode the channel number (in SLM under Parent Stations) to match what the Philo TVE entry is being assigned in CDVR
5. Set the Preferred Playlist to be the PLM - Streaming Stations, then regenerated the m3us from SLM and only added the m3u Playlist - Gracenote (MPEG-TS) [01] (containing 1 station) to CDVR, and it now works.

@babsonnexus

In this case, even though they offer the source, they don't have any programs to offer, so kind of useless:

Copy, I thought that might be the case, but just wanted to see if maybe I'd configured this wrong.

Thank you for the quick reply!

[hal9000]

Please update documentation

There is a lot of contention around having to worry about the distinctions between MPEG-TS and HLS streams in custom playlists. Specifying the format as MPEG-TS causes the DVR to accept both formats. Please update the documentation so the users do not have to go through an unnecessary exercise in order to figure out what the content of the playlist is. Big Thank You to whoever made it possible

[jator]

EDIT - Didn't realize I had TVE m3u import set to MPEG vs HLS. Modified the format under the Manage Playlist to correct, but same question below still applies in a mixed source enviroment).

Sorry as this should be clear to me but I'm still new to testing out PLM.

I have multiple sources that are a mix of HLS and MPEG-TS.

As an example, CBS comes in via HLS from PrismCast and TVE, and comes in via MPEG-TS from my HDHR tuners and ADBtuners.

I setup the parent for CBS and put all channels underneath (HLS and MPEG-TS).

.

However, in the m3us I serve up to Channels, it's only showing CBS under the MPEG-TS feed and not the HLS feed:

My question is, if my HDHR Tuners were having an issue and PLM had to fallback to a HLS source (TVE as an example), how does Channels manage an HLS source coming through the MPEG feed? Just want to make sure I am setting this up correctly to have full redundency.

Thanks,

Jay

[babsonnexus]

@jator

My question is, if my HDHR Tuners were having an issue and PLM had to fallback to a HLS source (TVE as an example), how does Channels manage an HLS source coming through the MPEG feed?

If a Parent station's source Child station is now HLS instead of MPEG-TS (or vice versa), it will move from one resulting PLM playlist to another, like with these two:

However, the unique channel_id is still the same, so as far as Channels is concerned, it's still the same station and will maintain everything about it (Channel Collections, Gracenote guide data, attachment to recordings, etc...).

Should you somehow have a HLS station on an MPEG-TS playlist (which can only happen in PLM from intentional misidentification), Channels identifies and handles it. This isn't true of a MPEG-TS station on a HLS playlist. Some recommend making everything MPEG-TS due to this, but I don't. My feeling is that if a difference exists, there may be a benefit, so why not take advantage? Others don't think it matters, but let's not debate this again as this has been done to death elsewhere and I don't want any more spam on this topic in this thread.

@jator

Just want to make sure I am setting this up correctly to have full redundency.

That's a personal preference. For OTA and TVE versions, I actually keep both and use source order, favorites, and station numbers in Channels to manage which ones go first:

Most everything else, though, I just have a preference order in PLM and only keep one version. So something like Channels TVE > EplusTV > PrismCast (and a bunch of other stuff, just not complicating it here).

[jator]

Thanks @babsonnexus for the quick reply.

If I am interpreting your response correctly, you have your setup so there isn't 1 CBS Parent Channel that has multiple sources feeding it. You have multiple parent channels setup, "delineating" them based on the source type and use a separate channel (12.1 for MPEG, 8200 for HLS)? Thus in CDVR you have 2 entries and then use favorite or source preference in the channels source (since MPEG-TS has a separate M3U than HLS)?

What I was looking to do was to have 1 "physical" channel per actual channel in the guide in CDVR that was fed by PLM. In the event that primary channel fails for any reason the backup channel would be picked up inside the single "physical" channel (usually OTA -> TVE -> PrismCast -> FAST -> ADBtuner) and not have to fall back to another channel in my guide.

Can I setup 2 Parent Channels (CBS - HLS; CBS - MPEG) and map the aprropriate streams to each and then have them both use the same channel number? Not sure how Channels will react to that, I'll start playing around now as I've only setup about 20 of the 200 I usually setup and would like to make sure I don't have to do any re-work after setting it up.

Thanks,

Jay

P.S. Great tool by the way. Way more features than I can fathom using right now, but as I get more comfortable with it, I'll see what else I can do with this.

[babsonnexus]

@jator

If I am interpreting your response correctly, you have your setup so there isn't 1 CBS Parent Channel that has multiple sources feeding it. You have multiple parent channels setup, "delineating" them based on the source type and use a separate channel (12.1 for MPEG, 8200 for HLS)? Thus in CDVR you have 2 entries and then use favorite or source preference in the channels source (since MPEG-TS has a separate M3U than HLS)?

Not quite; I have 2 CBS Parent Stations. One is for my HDHR, the other one is for every other source (Channels TVE, PrismCast, etc...). This has nothing to do with HLS and MPEG-TS or any technical reason; it's just to have a safety backup version in Channels should my preferred one (OTA) go down.

Let's look at another example. I do the same thing with my local Fox:

First, the parents are filled in PLM based on PLM preference order and current status:

So, by PLM logic, I end up with the local OTA Market 1, local OTA Market 2, and Local TVE Market 2 versions of the station. In this example, you can also see that since the EPlusTV feed has a status of "Disabled", PLM has moved on to the next priority. Thus, my Local TVE Market 2 is using PrismCast instead.

After that, I end up with only the three Fox stations in Channels. Based upon my Channels DVR priority order of sources and favorites, the OTA stations come up first (with an order between them of which market I prefer), then the TVE one:

In other words, Channels DVR handles Providence OTA > Boston OTA > Providence TVE. Within Providence TVE, PLM determines which SINGULAR one I get, with EplusTV > PrismCast.

And again, I only do this for personal preference; no one has to do what I did. I could just as easily had one "Fox Local" and let PLM handle everything and call it a day.

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@jator

In the event that primary channel fails for any reason the backup channel would be picked up inside the single "physical" channel (usually OTA -> TVE -> PrismCast -> FAST -> ADBtuner) and not have to fall back to another channel in my guide.

To be very clear, PLM does not have fallback at this time, it only has assignment. A Parent with multiple children will only select one of those children, based upon PLM priority order and checked status. So if you assign OTA, TVE, PrismCast, FAST, and ADBTuner versions to a single parent, and that is your priority order in PLM, PLM is only going to give the OTA one (if it has a valid or no status).

If we continue with my example from above, looking at my PLM m3u, I can see my Fox Providence station's streaming url is the HDHR...

... and my TVE one is PrismCast due to EPlusTV having a status of "Disabled", thus moving on to the next priority...

The internal logic of which child to use happens at the time of the m3u build, not at the time of watching. If you want backups in Channels DVR, presently you must have multiple PLM Parents.

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@jator

Can I setup 2 Parent Channels (CBS - HLS; CBS - MPEG) and map the aprropriate streams to each and then have them both use the same channel number?

Channels DVR must have unique station numbers. Nevertheless, you don't need to do that. If you just want one CBS, assign all the children to one parent. Based upon the child's stream format, PLM will determine which stream format playlist it belongs in.

Here's another example to look at with "PBS World":

I have 75 children assigned to the singular parent. Based upon source priority order, VLC Bridge PBS > HDHR OTA > PLM Internal PBS Playlist. VLC Bridge PBS is set as MPEG-TS; however a station check reveals that PBS World is actually HLS. Thus, the parent station is assigned to my PLM HLS Gracenote playlist. If during the check station status routine the VLC Bridge PBS came back as "Disabled" for any reason, then the next time the PLM m3u's are built, PBS World will go to the next priority, which is the HDHR OTA one. Since I don't check the station status for that source, it has a status of "null", and thus will be chosen no matter what. Also, since this my HDHR OTA source, it is MPEG-TS. As such, PBS World moves from PLM HLS Gracenote to PLM MPEG-TS Gracenote.

But it does not matter because the channel-id is unique to the Parent and is the same no matter the playlist:

Further, this means as far as Channels DVR is concerned, this is the same station, just being provided by a different "Custom Channel". The next time the m3u's are updated in Channels DVR, all of this will be seamlessly reflected. And, of course, you shouldn't need to do anything because this can all be handled by automation.

[kleywelsh]

@Matthew_Crommert

Thanks man - only other thing i noticed - i had gone through all my pluto channels and was doing tubi and i would assign like 20-30 leave and come back and many of them would just be back in unassigned - not sure if i'm missing something simple - it happened a half dozen times

Eventually i just sent them all to parent channels and i'll sort them out later

Please forgive me if the answer to this question is in here somewhere but I'll blame it on old eyes. Did you ever figure this out? This happening to me but not with PlutoTV.