Apple TV questions. vs Android TV (Shield) experiences

speedingcheetah · July 8, 2021, 8:08pm

I just got a Apple TV 4K to use as my Home Hub thing for remote HomeKit to work...sigh
I do not intend on using it for streaming or TV, I use Nvidia Shield for that.
But while i have it, thought I would give it a try with Channels for a bit.

Have a 2 things that stands out to me on Apple TV vs Android TV that I would like to addressed.

(yes, I use the Carbon theme moded version of Channels on Android TV on my own Shield, but use the normal non moded one in my other client devices. Also, there seems to be no way to take a screen shot on Apples TVos.)

The episode info/description seems to have more data on the Apple version.
see images below.

Apple:

Android TV (Shield) :

Both are connected to the same server. Same recorded show.
Why does Apple TV have more extensive description??

How do you REMOVE/ HIDE this super annoying side bar that shows to the left of the Guide on Apple TV.
(I am guessing it has to do with "Manage Navigation" settings, but I have that set server level, so the options in the app are greyed out.)

Is there a client specific setting i can set in the server to either remove this side bar to make it the nice small dropdown menu style like in Android tv?

EDIT: I figured this one out.
General > Live TV > Guide Collections = Off.
(it appears to stick to whatever the last selection was after you disable the setting, for me Favorites, which is what I want to show always)

Apple:

Android TV:

{There are quite a few other things with this Apple TV vs the Shield i can comment about(i mean complain about)...but that is beyond the scope of Channels DVR)

speedingcheetah · July 9, 2021, 10:55pm

Maybe i'm crazy.....but i think, maybe, Channels on Apple TV is sharper?
Meaning, the UI objects and the font/text, appear to be crisper.

The video picture though, when streaming a channel, is normal.
I know the Shield as a AI Enhance thing that sharpens the video (and apparently upscales) to make it look better. Apple does not have anything like that.

Overall, i like the simplicity of the Apple TV.
Only thing stopping me from putting in my LivingRoom to use in place of the tube Shield, is that the Apple remote is not backlit, and overall is less comfortable to hold than the Shield remote. (but at least it does not have a annoying Netflix button on it)

slampman · July 10, 2021, 4:43am

You are not crazy. Appletv is much better than the shield tube. I have both on the same TV. I went back and forth between them and was going to return one until the return window expired.

It used to be the shield had a better quality picture and no stutter until @tmm1 fixed the experimental video driver on ATV. Now it is perfect 100% of the time on both HD and SD content. I actually did a test of a standard def show on both the appletv and the shield. Appletv was about as clean of a pic as you can get on a 480i signal. The shield looked heavily pixelated and distracting to watch.

The shield also has that unfixable hardware bug with some ota mpeg2 feeds. My local ABC affiliate is one of them. Other that that I did like the shield but it just can't compare to ATV. I was actually going to move the shield to our master bedroom becuase we just installed a TV there. I chose instead to buy another ATV instead of using the shield that I already had if that tells you anything.

speedingcheetah · July 10, 2021, 5:15am

I have had no issues with SD content on either of the Shields. or the CCGTV or TS4K.
The pixelizing and blocking is worse on the Shield due to the image processing the AI Enhance does to sharpen things. Disabling it, results in a softer looking picture.

My comments about the Apple TV looking better is about the app UI, and guide and banners, not the video streams. The raw video streams, look better to me on the Shield.

I don't often watch SD content, so even if the Apple TV does stream it better, it is not a major thing that I would notice.

Apple TV also is useless to me for local content import.
I use a tweaked, sideloaded apk of MPV player on my Shield, that has far superior video codec processing and I have the picture settings tweaked to my liking.
I have a Samsung 1TB SSD connected via USB for storage and often transfer movies or downloaded files to it to play locally on the Shield.
Also, I use 2 different USB DACs one for each pair of headphones i use.

Apple TV has no USB, no way to connect external devices, for storage or DAC support...so, its useless to me in nearly all regards for media.

It sits in a shelf in sleep mode, just to run its HomeKit HUB thing so my smart things function remotely on my work iPhone.
I looked around and could not find any third party way or device , like a Raspberry Pi, to make or emulate a ipad or apple tv device to function as a HomeHub, at least not one that was remotely easy to get working and be reliable.

But, i would take the Apple TV over a Roku or Fire TV stick device anyday.
Though, one of those are uke what $50...vs $199 for Apple TV or a Shield.

maddox · July 10, 2021, 1:55pm

You can’t remove the filter bar on the Guide in Apple TV.

It looks like Android isn’t using the long description in that view, we can fix it.

The Apple TV UI is sharper because it’s actually in 4K. No other streaming boxes render their UI in 4K, they use 1080p. It’s one of the things that makes the Apple TV so much nicer.

speedingcheetah · July 10, 2021, 2:59pm

I have the 4K box but it’s not set to use 4K it’s connected to a 1080 P monitor

And the filter bar as you call it was removed when I disabled the collections setting

maddox · July 10, 2021, 3:10pm

I forgot we added that setting

thully · July 10, 2021, 3:36pm

Interesting. I am currently running Channels on a Chromecast with Google TV (primary TV) and Apple TV HD (secondary), and was thinking of either getting an Apple TV 4K or Nvidia Shield for the primary TV. I actually bought the Apple TV 4K and returned it due to issues with interlaced video, but later discovered that was caused by my TV’s motion smoothing.

Was thinking of either getting another one of the Shield, and was tempted to get the Shield due to AI upscaling and ability to run the server and client. However, if the Shield’s AI upscaling doesn’t help/makes things worse and I have a chance of running into some unfixable MPEG2 problem, the Apple TV sounds like a better option. I do currently use the Android TV app on the Chromecast with Google TV without issue, though I’d like to get a more powerful box (menus are somewhat slow and there’s no app switcher). Does anyone else have more insight on using Apple TV 4K vs Nvidia Shield on Channels?

jseymour · July 10, 2021, 4:00pm

We never had any of the higher-end Android TV devices, so I cannot really do an apples:apples comparison, but, of the Android and Amazon Fire TV devices we did have (still have, as I haven't gotten around to selling them, yet): The Apple TV was so superior to them in every last respect I immediately began to phase them all out in favor of ATVs. Four of the five have been done. The fifth TV isn't really in use, so that one won't be for a while.

slampman · July 10, 2021, 4:48pm

I thought the same thing that ATV was terrible. The post processing on my TV trying to compensate for the stutter on the channels experimental video driver made it unwatchable. But now it is rock solid and I could probably enable the motion smoothing again but I'm happy with every "helpful" feature turned off on my TV. Oh yeah sharpness was a big issue as well. I turned that all the way off on my TV and that helped as well

speedingcheetah · July 10, 2021, 4:58pm

It is getting confusing when people say "ATV" cause to me that mean Android TV.
But its now technically "GTV" Google TV i guess.

Never understood why people think to abbreviate Apple TV like ATV when in a form that also deals with Android tv, only leads to confusion.

Call it Apple TV or TVos...but not "ATV".

After all, there are 2 different things one is referring to , the device it self, or the OS it runs.
Nvidia Shield runs Android TV (ATV), along with many other tvs and devices.
Apple TV (ATV) runs TVos.

Hence why I have hard time telling what someone is posting about when they say "ATV".

speedingcheetah · July 10, 2021, 7:46pm

I can add that the Ethernet WAN (Internet to device) throughput of the Apple TV is much lower than the Nvidia Shield, for download.

Using the Speedtest app from Ookla app, set to the same server, the one closest to me:

Download / Upload in Mbps

Apple TV: 521 / 938 Ping 1ms Jitter 0.12ms Loss 0%

Shield: 868 / 885 Ping 0ms Jitter 0ms Loss 0%

I have 1gig Fiber internet connection that routinely tests at about 950 or so Mbps down and up.

Upload performance of a streaming device is irrelevant (under normal standard use case), cause, one does not ever upload anything via it, streaming boxes are 99% downloads based functions.

Real world, would one notice any slowness or buffering with a difference of ~350Mbps...when streaming online media, probably not.
But with streaming services pushing out higher and higher bitrate 4K and eventually higher resolution video streams, that are larger and large file sizes...you would want every bit of available throughput/bandwidth available to have best experience.

Just something i noticed.

(the non 4K apple tv model, i read, has a 10/100 port, so that would be a severe bottle neck)

djcastaldo · July 10, 2021, 8:13pm

My speedtest app on AppleTV has much better downstream. I have tested it on multiple multiple ATVs before. But I did just try it 3 times on the tv behind my computer (where I am currently sitting):
933 / 37.4
907 / 41.7
923 / 41.6

This is with a cable internet connection. So it seems like the limitation is not the Apple TV.

speedingcheetah · July 10, 2021, 8:44pm

The Apple TV gets the same slower download speed than the Shield no matter where i connect it, to my switch or direct to my routers secondary LAN port eth2 (thus bypassing any of my switches.)
I use a Ubiquiti EdgeRouter 4 as my router.
Have no modem, since it is a direct connection via Ethernet jack in my wall, to my ISP switch located in the complex utilities room down the hall and on 1st floor from my unit,

Macnbaish · July 11, 2021, 12:00am

Are tests from both devices testing to the exact same destination server? If not, it’s not really apples to apples.

speedingcheetah · July 11, 2021, 12:17am

If you are asking me, yes, as i stated, same server for the speedtests.

djcastaldo · July 11, 2021, 1:19am

Do you have hardware offload set up on the Edgerouter?

I wasn’t really intending to troubleshoot this with you, just saying that it is something specific to your environment. The ATV4K will absolutely hit gigabit downstream speeds if the network is capable.

speedingcheetah · July 11, 2021, 1:36am

Yes. and HW offload clearly is enabled if other devices can hit wire gigabit speeds via the same network backbone.
and no, i am not trying to Troubleshoot things with you.

Furthermore, friend got about same speed on his Apple tv 4k...
I brought mine to his workplace, where they have a 10Gig WAN connection, and both ours tested about the same when connected to a 10Gig Cisco switch.

Not sure why you are getting better speeds, but I can not reproduce your success.

Just my observation and experience with the 2 devices so far.
Like i said though, probably does not make any practical real world difference.

jseymour · July 11, 2021, 2:44pm

Indeed. I just tested our one wired ATV4K against our LAN server: 943Mb/s. This is pretty much full real world wire speed for GigE.

Same test to the NAS nets closer to 900Mb/s, but that's through two switches, rather than one, and that NAS is hosting both the Channels DVR server and Synology Surveillance Station with six 2MP cameras.

Speed tests to servers out on the Internet aren't useful for determining anything more than the speed between your node and whatever's hosting the speed test at that particular point in time. That's it. (And not even necessarily that.)

It's unclear to me why anyone would care whether the ATV4K hits GigE wire speeds--other than for the intellectual exercise. 4K maxes out somewhere around 25Mb/s. So, it's nice that it can hit GigE speeds, but of little real world consequence. E.g.: Our ATV4K's hit 200-250Mb/s to our NAS, wireless. Since that's around four times the bandwidth they need, I'm good with that.

djcastaldo · July 11, 2021, 3:43pm

For simply watching a live steam, this is true. But the device will use all of the available network bandwidth for other tasks, such as buffering a recording stored on a NAS or retrieving the guide data from the server.

No, its not necessary at all. But the higher speeds + lower latency absolutely add a small tangible benefit.

The point was that @speedingcheetah was making a claim that all Apple TVs have some sort of deficiency and cannot come close to gigabit speed.
But this is clearly a false claim. I have 5 of them. None of which have ever tested below 900mbps WAN-to-LAN. Solely testing to the Channels app running on ATV using the LAN with no internet involved, speeds are even faster: