ATSC 3.0 Nextgen experience (Twin Cities, MN)

Channels DVR Server
#1

ATSC 3.0 just launched in my area, (Twin Cities, MN).

4 channels:

104.1 WCCO [DRM]
105.1 KSTP (ABC)
109.1 KMSP (MYTVNETWORK) [DRM]
111.1 KARE (NBC) [DRM]
123.1 WUCW (CW)

ATSC3.0

Sadly, all but 2 of them have DRM and are un-playable. And, chatter on my local form on AVS, those stations, plan to go DRM in the future.

I notice a few things in regards to Channels that could use some work.

  1. The new channels were NOT auto mapped by the DVR server, even though they are the same call sign as the 1.0 stations. I had to map them manually.

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  1. Tuning a ATSC3.0 channels takes a LONG time.
    15 secs consistently. (ATSC1.0 only takes 2 sec)
    Using a hardwired Apple TV 4K 2022
    (tuner share off)
    On Nvidia Shield Pro, take about 10 secs to tune.

  2. Audio is VERY low volume compared to the 1.0 version. Like 80% lower. Even in playback or recording.

Overall, not impressed with this, NEXTGEN TV. I am told that the source of the broadcast is really what makes the difference, and in my area, they may just be upsizing the feed.
They did lower the bitrate on the other main ATSC1.0 stations from about 10-12K to 6-7K though, so they look worse than before.
DRM use though, makes this change over useless to me. SD has no updates or timeline on when they will push the new firmware for DRM support (when they do, will those stations then work in Channels DVR?)
Hope 1.0 stays online.

EDIT:

Done a test recording. And it is HEVC. Nice. But, VLC, nor MPV, will play the AC4 audio.
Anyone who been using ATSC3.0, know how to get the audio in the recorded files to play on PC?
Update: So... ffmpeg does not support AC4, nor does pretty much anything. I copied out the ffmpeg.exe from the Channels DVR Server program files, and that is able to convert the AC4 to AC3 fine. Will post about that in other thread i made.

3 Likes
ATSC 3.0 very slow to tune
#2

It's nice to finally receive a few ATSC 3.0 channels to test and use with my HDHR in our area. The upconverted to 1080p KSTP 105.1 doesn't look as good to me as the straight forward 720p version on 5.1.

I used to get almost 100% ATSC 1.0 reception on all channels but now getting a bunch of reception issues starting today. Hopefully, it's just the windy conditions and will be better tomorrow.

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#3

I have lost PBS/TPT. 2.1 I get the sub channels, barely.
Read that they are, for the last few weeks, transition to a new tower, and are using a temp tower, that is low power. No updates of late, seems they are running behind. Also affect HD Radio stations.

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#4

The KMSP and KTCA/I towers off Victoria St, not too far from the Shoreview telefarm with most of the other channels. A few weeks back TPT went off air due to annouced tower upgrades. Not sure about lately. I still get it. I'm about 18 miles from all those towers and never really have reception issues until today.

I think they were working on the Wisconsin PBS tower near River Falls/Hudson area recently because I had all the Wisconsin PBS channels for a day about 2 weeks ago. Then they disappeared. Not sure what they were doing but that tower is about 45-50 miles away and I've never even seen a hint before or since then.

#5

I am very disappointed with the situation. The station's signal (1.0 and 3.0 that I watch for local news, WWL, has suddenly become very weak and inconsistent. Two of the main stations DRM'ed immediately and I do not have a lot of confidence in SD being able to resolve the situation in the near future. The lesson of life is to keep your expectations low and your frustration will go down immediately. I have had to resort to adding WWL to my m3u list in order to watch the local news.

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#6

What is WWL channel? I have never heard of that local news channel.

Google search comes up with a station in New Orleans, Louisiana....which is a looong way from where i am at.

#7

WWL is in New Orleans where I live. I was commenting on the current state of 3.0

#8

Do you have an m3u source for Fox 8.
Please post how to get WWL and Fox 8 m3u's that if you do, thanks.

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#9

Bummer. Just saw we added the new channels, but didn’t realize they were DRM before I ordered the Flex4K. I was previously using the cable card hdhr primes, and recently have been using M3U, but want a more reliable experience. Hopefully they figure something out that works with Channels DVR in the future. The DRM for cable channels and the HDHomeRun app only worked on android with GPS support, and only in the HDHomeRun app vs. 3rd party apps.

#10

Sadly, but not surprisingly, DRM support for users of Home DVRs that use Gateway style tuners, (HDHR) are screwed over. The A3SA don't seem to care and really do not want to certify the devices for DRM. If Silicon Dust has had a 7 month long struggle dealing with it, i do not think Channels DVR will ever be able to get the cert needed to play, let alone record DRM stations.

This is the way the world is going to, DRM everything, the broadcasters will have more control over "Free" antenna tv, in how, where, and on what, you watch it, far more restrictive that online streaming sites are.

Encryption is an optional thing broadcasters can enable, among other things, but some, like WCCO, KARE, enabled it on all their new ATSC 3.0 stations in every market, despite the fact that there is very very little actual hardware that supports it yet. Is only a matter of time before the unencrypted stations enable it.

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#11

FOX 109.1 removed DRM a week or so ago. Was noticed by someone on AVS forms when they did a manual re-scan their HDHR.

PBS also announced they will be moving to ATSC 3.0

Other news, LG is removing ATSC 3.0 tuners from their new tvs.

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#12

TPT/PBS completed their 3.0 upgrade.
They take a tad longer to tune than other other channels, even the HDHR app.
Screenshot 2023-10-25 144331

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#13

Have you found missing guide data for the new pbs stations, it should match the atsc1.I’ve rescanned, redownloaded guide, even set the provider fresh.
Not picking up station logos and just has place keepers.

You seeing this?

#14

No. U map them to the 1.0 stations. They use the exact same data.

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#15

Has anyone in the Twin Cities recieved a 4K signal on these channels yet? So far all of my stations show HD, just like @speedingcheetah's screenshots, is it just dependent on the source content that's airing at that particular time?

#16

Pretty much no one is broadcasting in 4k. Its just usually upscaled 1080i.

#17

For those following, you have to go into manage lineup and manually enter the atsc 1 channels into the atsc 3 channels

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#18

I still have issues with very very low volume on ABC (KSTP) and also FOX (WFTCDT2) ATSC3.0.
It is more than half the volume as their ATSC 1.0 versions. (there is the same football game airing on all these channels right now, so it very easy to switch around and hear the differences.

I mention this on local AVS fourms for my area, but, "you are the only one complaining"... "must be something wrong with your hardware" is all i get. Few people say they compared the channels on their tvs (built in hardware tuner in the tv) and notice no differences in volume.

But for me, it has been this way since launch.

I submitted a Tech support request to local KSTP, but all i got back was typical tv set troubleshooting, and "we could not reproduce your issue".

Something has changed though, because, it was same thing comparing the HDHR app to channels. Volume low on 3.0 version. NOW, the 3.0 channels in HDHR app are LOUDER than the 1.0 version.

In Channels app, they remain much much lower in volume.
So this must be a Channels issue for these specific channels though, the other 3.0 channels, TPT PBS and Kare11 do not have this issue.
Not sure if maybe when the HDHR app is decodeing the AC4 audio, if it is applying a audio volume boost... this is what i do with ffmpeg when i run my convert of recordings from AC4 to AC3 and apply a 5db boost.
I submitted diags from the app, after switching between the channels, in case any of the devs is monitoring this thread.

#19

Where does your device fit in ? I use Fire TV Stick 4K Max (new 2023 model) with digital passthrough on the HDHR APP. Using Channels DVR I get low volume and Frame dropping. So I use HDHR app to record all Sunday Football Games.

If you specifically want built in AC4 support the current list is:
Roku Ultra 4800X
Roku TVs (modern)
LG TVs 2019+
Fire TV Edition TVs (modern)
Fire TV Cube (3rd gen)
Fire TV Stick 4K (new 2023 model)
Fire TV Stick 4K Max (new 2023 model)
Mecool KM2 Plus
Mi 4K stick (latest)
Many Android phones and tablets.

Apple TV 4K works, utilizing our cloud transcode service.
Chromecast 4K works, utilizing our cloud transcode service.

#20

Not sure what you mean... I use and Apple TV 4K and Nvidia Shields and the experience is the same among them for atsc 3.0. I do not have a tv with 3.0 tuner to try that, but many tvs do thier own audio processing and volume leveling / EQ. Far as i know, HDHR does not, app and Channels streams the raw data signal from the tuner unaltered.

The people on AVS forums said they use Sony, Samsung, Vizio.. all the major brands, and no notice any volume issues.

And Channels and HDHR recordings are the same, raw capture form the hardware tuner.

Roku tv is not relevant, as Channels is not supported on Roku.