Channels without guide data cannot be recorded

[chDVRuser]

#EXTM3U
#EXTINF:-1 channel-id="6700" tvg-id="6700" tvg-chno="6700" tvg-logo="https://tmsimg.fancybits.co/assets/p10399541_b_h3_ab.jpg?w=360&h=270" tvc-guide-stationid="60048" tvg-name="AS-RICKANDMORTY" group-title="HD",AS-RICKANDMORTY
http://192.168.1.4:8089/devices/TVE-Comcast_SSO/channels/6700/stream.mpg?format=ts
#EXTINF:-1 channel-id="6701" tvg-id="6701" tvg-chno="6701" tvg-logo="https://tmsimg.fancybits.co/assets/p9232976_b_h3_ac.jpg?w=360&h=270" tvc-guide-stationid="60048" tvg-name="AS-THEERICANDRE" group-title="HD",AS-THEERICANDRE
http://192.168.1.4:8089/devices/TVE-Comcast_SSO/channels/6701/stream.mpg?format=ts
#EXTINF:-1 channel-id="6702" tvg-id="6702" tvg-chno="6702" tvg-logo="https://tmsimg.fancybits.co/assets/p186253_b_h3_ac.jpg?w=360&h=270" tvc-guide-stationid="60048" tvg-name="AS-THEVENTUREBROS" group-title="HD",AS-THEVENTUREBROS
http://192.168.1.4:8089/devices/TVE-Comcast_SSO/channels/6702/stream.mpg?format=ts
#EXTINF:-1 channel-id="6703" tvg-id="6703" tvg-chno="6703" tvg-logo="https://tmsimg.fancybits.co/assets/p8654617_b_h3_ab.jpg?w=360&h=270" tvc-guide-stationid="60048" tvg-name="AS-OFFTHEAIR" group-title="HD",AS-OFFTHEAIR
http://192.168.1.4:8089/devices/TVE-Comcast_SSO/channels/6703/stream.mpg?format=ts
#EXTINF:-1 channel-id="6704" tvg-id="6704" tvg-chno="6704" tvg-logo="https://tmsimg.fancybits.co/assets/p15120867_b_h6_aa.jpg?w=360&h=270" tvc-guide-stationid="60048" tvg-name="AS-MRPICKLES" group-title="HD",AS-MRPICKLES
http://192.168.1.4:8089/devices/TVE-Comcast_SSO/channels/6704/stream.mpg?format=ts
#EXTINF:-1 channel-id="6705" tvg-id="6705" tvg-chno="6705" tvg-logo="https://tmsimg.fancybits.co/assets/p185638_b_h6_ai.jpg?w=360&h=270" tvc-guide-stationid="60048" tvg-name="AS-ROBOTCHICKEN" group-title="HD",AS-ROBOTCHICKEN
http://192.168.1.4:8089/devices/TVE-Comcast_SSO/channels/6705/stream.mpg?format=ts
#EXTINF:-1 channel-id="6706" tvg-id="6706" tvg-chno="6706" tvg-logo="https://tmsimg.fancybits.co/assets/p10935798_b_h6_ab.jpg?w=360&h=270" tvc-guide-stationid="60048" tvg-name="AS-BLACKJESUS" group-title="HD",AS-BLACKJESUS
http://192.168.1.4:8089/devices/TVE-Comcast_SSO/channels/6706/stream.mpg?format=ts
#EXTINF:-1 channel-id="6707" tvg-id="6707" tvg-chno="6707" tvg-logo="https://tmsimg.fancybits.co/assets/p185307_b_h3_ag.jpg?w=360&h=270" tvc-guide-stationid="60048" tvg-name="AS-AQUATEENHUNGER" group-title="HD",AS-AQUATEENHUNGER
http://192.168.1.4:8089/devices/TVE-Comcast_SSO/channels/6707/stream.mpg?format=ts
#EXTINF:-1 channel-id="6708" tvg-id="6708" tvg-chno="6708" tvg-logo="https://tmsimg.fancybits.co/assets/p481593_b_h3_ad.jpg?w=360&h=270" tvc-guide-stationid="60048" tvg-name="AS-SAMURAIJACK" group-title="HD",AS-SAMURAIJACK
http://192.168.1.4:8089/devices/TVE-Comcast_SSO/channels/6708/stream.mpg?format=ts
#EXTINF:-1 channel-id="6709" tvg-id="6709" tvg-chno="6709" tvg-logo="https://tmsimg.fancybits.co/assets/s43309_ll_h3_aa.png?w=360&h=270" tvc-guide-stationid="60048" tvg-name="AS-INFOMERCIALS" group-title="HD",AS-INFOMERCIALS
http://192.168.1.4:8089/devices/TVE-Comcast_SSO/channels/6709/stream.mpg?format=ts

@racameron

Basically, the exported M3U playlist is kept the same, but the tvc-guide-stationid tag has the same content as Cartoon Network, which is 60048 according to the screenshots.

Correct. Also added the tvg-logo

[warrens]

Even though it would be great to not have to use a workaround, I'm just thankful that one exists. I'll be giving this a shot sometime soon. Thanks for all of the suggestions and examples!

[jxxaxxy]

Warrens I would assume this is an OTA channel you are picking up through an hdhomerun? If so you can report the missing guide data to silicon dust and they will update their stuff and send off to the guide folks to add it. I did this for Rewind TV probably 8 or 9 months ago.

https://forum.silicondust.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=127

[speedingcheetah]

I was just giving one example.
Too much work to do that, and for something i would consider a basic function, to record....
My "workaround" i used briefly, as it was already setup at the time, was to use the m3u from channels as a Emby tuner, and its guide populates those 24/7 channels. So i recorded from Emby.
That was a while back, have not needed to record those non-recordable channels since then, but would be nice to have them be able to be recorded natively with no funky "workaround". But is minor thing to me at this point.

[chDVRuser]

@speedingcheetah

Too much work to do that, and for something i would consider a basic function, to record....

Totally agree. Many have asked for a way to manually record be "built in".
I only do workarounds for things I want bad enough to make it worth my effort.
But sometimes I just like playing and learning.

[racameron]

@speedingcheetah

something i would consider a basic function, to record....
My "workaround" i used briefly

You're right, it is usually considered a basic function; also getting it to work can also involve "workarounds".

However, based upon your responses (and those mirrored by myriad users) you don't remember VCR+, nor the numerous "jokes" about programming a VCR. This is the modern equivalent of something many thought banished to history: recording requires guide data (VCR+), and time/channel-based recordings required advanced knowledge (programming the VCR itself).

You may think the analogy contrived, but if you were born in the 80s or before, the analogy makes perfect sense.

[Fofer]

Haha yea, I remember those "VCR+" codes! Thanks for the blast from the past

I had one of these: VCR Plus+ Instant Programmer - New In Box | eBay

And then, I'm pretty sure the VCR+ "tech" was later included in one of our VCRs. It all felt like magic. Good times!

[speedingcheetah]

Vaguely recall VCR+, never owned one that had that. But it was NEVER popular or mainstream. Of if their model had it, was never used.
Also, even those fancy models, you could just use it normally, and ignore the VCR+ bit.

VCR+, if i recall, was not functional if you had a cable box, or tuner adapter device, and needed the VCR to record on it Line In or Coax Ch3. the + programming feature set base don the code, told the vcr to tune to that channel, so you would be limited to coax input only. Back when cable over coax was all analog, VCR tuner would work, but even as early as the mid 90's cable companies had some sort of way to make the signal only work if you used their box. Some channels, those over 99, also only existed on their box.
2001 is when our provider converted to digital signal only, and made the built in tuner of the VCR or tv useless.

back then, all i did was know what time and channel i wanted it to record on.
Moved on to DVD recorders(skipped SVHS VCR) and that did not have anything like VCR+.
(Even so, we always had a cable box, so vcr/dvd rec on its line RCA input channel always.)
I guess this means tech has devolved, now too complex to did this dumb simple function, record X channel from XX:XX to XX:XX , or for X minutes.

Emby, Was able to just click record, and click it again to set duration. I think, WMC also had that ability.

The idea that a DVR record function needs "Guide Data", well, what is guide data at its minimum core in order to produce end result, source(channel) and duration (start/stop or single value duration). The rest of the data truly is optional and is only for naming and identification purposes. The minimum data can be passed to the record function by the user. the rest of the metadata can just be auto populated with the existing generic guide data (name of program block, or have placeholder data if none exists).

There currently exists the option to add padding to recordings as well as other custom modification tags ...so there is already has the ability to modify those values stored for the recording process..

[speedingcheetah]

@Fofer

I had one of these: VCR Plus+ Instant Programmer - New In Box | eBay

Does those small booklet TV Guides still exist?
My mother used to have a annoying large collection of those things, highlighted and saved cause had adverts or things about her Soaps.

[warrens]

Yes. OTA HDHomeRun Channel 24.4 Fresno. When I view the channel through the HDHameRun app, all of the channel program info is there so I'm hopeful your suggestion is successful. Thanks!

[speedingcheetah]

@racameron

, and time/channel-based recordings required advanced knowledge (programming the VCR itself).

No, and yes. Different situations.

If i pull up live the guide, or open the live tv channel, and want to just start recording starting now, why can't I just click record, and the DVR asks me how long, 30, 60, 90 min...etc" Done. simple.
It already exists the function to start a recording immediate while watching live tv.

If i know a show comes on at x time, then why can't i long press that block or channel in the guide, and set a "pass" or better see a "Record later" option, it asks me for time frame etc. again, simple.

the ability to preform these tasks seems to already be in place and functional.

The only hinderance that prevents it seems to simply be cause the "smart" guide data (metadata to me) is not fully populated for these channels. Like i mentioned, name of program, series id, descriptions, images, etc are really just nice to haves. If their code requires it, then possibly, they could add a way for it to just fill in generic data, 'Recording-Ch1-date-time" for example, when the user selects the manual record option in the app GUI.

The other option i can think if would be the user could manually edit the actually Guide data for that channel..I do not mean what currently is there to match up the channel lineup. Right click, edit, add program block with all the value options required imputable. Then, result, the guide now has the custom program block and user can select to record as with any other.
This would need to be done each time user wants to record something, and i guess, kinda mirror the idea of "programming the VCR" lol.
Using the custom channel .m3u appears to also accomplish this to an extent, however, there should not need to be the extra step of duplicating a channel that already exists natively and adding it back in such a janky way.

[speedingcheetah]

@racameron

you don't remember

And some keep forgetting that a record function had to start somewhere. Record on, record off...then, record from x to x time etc.

If the current implantation of record functions is too complex at this stage for it to function at a basic level, with minimal data parameters , then it would fairly trivial to make a second basic one, that does just that. Or copy the current Record function, strip it down, and have the UI elements call up that record function program code when under the present "not recordable channel" scenario.

However, this is not ideal or very efficient. As it means the devs then have 2 sets of function code sets to debug and update.
Instead, Making it so that the existing record function code so that it can perform in this scenario would be most ideal. The 2 ways i thought of this being accomplished already mentioned in previous post.

@racameron

You may think the analogy contrived, but if you were born in the 80s or before, the analogy makes perfect sense.

I was born in the 80's, and VCR was one of the first things i took apart and fixed when it broke (or ate a tape) when i was a kid. Ours never had the flashing clock, cause i read the manual and programed it. VCR more essential than running water, dear old mom recorded flipping everything. (3 closets, a pantry, a single car garage, and a 10x10 public storage locker full of paper ream boxes full of vhs tapes, recorded in SLP (6hrs/8hrs per tape) ).

What i realize from your analogy, is that modern tech has gotten so "Smart"....it actually is quite dumb...in certain practical use cases that us older folks are used to it being plum simple.

EDIT:
To put it more in simple context.

What is Channels DVR?

A home media software made to watch and RECORD live tv and programs.

Problem:

User can not RECORD programs on a built in auto populated channel.

Does it affect everyone: Yes, (TVE users at least)

Does everyone care: No

Should not have to do fancy custom "workarounds" to use basic functions on provided services.

[chDVRuser]

@warrens

When I view the channel through the HDHameRun app, all of the channel program info is there

If you map the guide like this it should work.

Search All Lineups for KSEEDT4 and choose that if found

If not found search for rewind

Select this one

that should match your channel 24.4 on zap2it.com

Another reason for this request Sync Station Mapping

[racameron]

As pointed out by some others, I would like to answer that this feature is not currently supported by this software at this time. (At least in the manner that you may be expecting. As myself and other have shared, what you wish can be achieved, but not quite as easily as a fill-in-the-blank dialog. Others believe this is a shortcoming that you should not have to face; if you believe as they do, then I believe you should seek out software that will suit your needs. However, if you feel that the overall user experience of Channels supersedes other software, then I feel you should stick with it an learn the intricacies.)

[chDVRuser]

Agree. As more users request things that aren't that difficult to implement, the devs have responded.
I mean we have a clock on the guide now, there is hope.

[adm1962]

Yes a basic function that should be available. Manual recording, choose channel, choose start time, choose end time. Pretty simple one would think. I also asked why a channel without guide data can't have blank blocks of 30 minute periods that can be highlighted and recorded. I don't see how this is so difficult

[Chief]

I updated to the latest DVR beta software and they've baked in 1 hour segments on channels without EPG data, this now gives you the ability to easily record those channels. This is something I've wanted for a long time, great to see the Devs work it in!

Chief

[maddox]

DVR Pre-Release: Placeholder guide data

With v2022.08.29.2159, TVE and custom channels which are unmapped will get placeholder guide data assigned automatically. [Screen Shot 2022-08-29 at 3.02.51 PM] [Screen Shot 2022-08-29 at 2.49.46 PM] The art, title and description are inherited from the Custom Channel properties (i.e. tvc-guide-title). A separate "series" is created per hour, so you can setup a pass directly from the guide for a specific hour block. You can also use advanced pass rules to limit to certain days of the week.…

[warrens]

Thanks for doing this! About a day after my OP the guide data appeared. But it will be here next time it is needed.

[arwrite]

Also, see my post here regarding guide data missing from your OTA guide. I was able to add the guide data from another zip code:
https://community.getchannels.com/t/missing-guide-data-ota-story-television-2-guides-at-once/33861/8